Not sure what to do next

[opendoor]

• Groups of men are typically larger than 2, often converse leaning against the bar or wall, don't seem to feel a strong need to make eye contact, and usually scan the room while talking. One can suddenly invite with the cabeceo and simply walk away to dance without the others caring much.

I hate it when the story breaks off mid-sentence and the person disappears onto the dance floor without warning. It's also bizarre when they then continue the story at exactly the same point twenty minutes later.

• Groups of women are typically larger than 2, often converse leaning in toward each other, seem to feel the need to make eye contact, and so are not looking into the room while talking. This means no mirada, and so attempts to invite them with the cabeceo either fail completely..

This case is more complicated! I painfully remember someone from such a group suddenly jumping up and approaching an alpha leader without any apparent prelude.

 

[Tangogal]

It becomes even more complicated when there are groups of people at a milonga who are there to socialise.

I go to milongas to dance with a minor bonus of socialising. At least I now have the confidence not to get cornered into the deep and meaningfuls! One of our best leaders would spend at least 30mins talking to his partner before dancing. So annoying, as nobody else would look their way.

As to fiddling with my phone. I get bored! If I’m alone at a table and all the leaders are dancing I’ll probably fiddle with my phone! Pre-smartphones becoming ubiquitous we had a leader who brought a newspaper. Once we had a visiting leader who brought a paperback. I’m considering bringing a deck of cards to our practilongas now. (Once again our community has shrunk to maybe 20 active dancers so if a leader is absent then there’s a lot of downtime).

So why don’t I lead? I don’t enjoy it! I’ve tried it a few times but prefer to follow.

 

[Rabbit]

I hate it when the story breaks off mid-sentence and the person disappears onto the dance floor without warning. It's also bizarre when they then continue the story at exactly the same point twenty minutes later.

Doesn't bother me, it works exactly like a book

 

[opendoor]

..It becomes even more complicated when there are groups of people at a milonga who are there to socialise...

I (leader) actually go to milongas mainly to socialize. Due to an injury, I can only dance three tandas at most. But if I stay too long, I get melancholy because everyone else can dance nonstop. Also, the later it gets, the better the music gets.

..So why don’t I lead? I don’t enjoy it! I’ve tried it a few times but prefer to follow.

I too prefer to follow but there are not enough good leader around.

 

[Brummbaer]

It becomes even more complicated when there are groups of people at a milonga who are there to socialise.

Funny how sometimes we want 'tradition' and alleged 'authenticity', but at other times it's just a 'dance'.

I'm not criticising either option! All part of its evolution outside BsAs.

 

[lucia_l]

• Groups of women are typically larger than 2, often converse leaning in toward each other, seem to feel the need to make eye contact, and so are not looking into the room while talking. This means no mirada, and so attempts to invite them with the cabeceo either fail completely or work only because one of the women looks up, notices an invitation, and starts the "Which of us is being invited?" conversation.

Haha! What do you do if the "wrong one" accepts?

• Lone women tend to be fiddling with their phone. In fact, vast numbers of women who've given me flak for not inviting them missed about 38 attempts from me while texting. Some have actually told me it's a show to avoid invitations they don't want, and that it's okay for me to come over and use words . . . which misses the point that less polite people will either do that first or see me doing it and do that next.

I think this perhaps highlights the fact that cabaceo does not solve women's difficulties in turning down unwanted invitations. Maybe it solves men's, but women are obviously finding other strategies.

Also, maybe the women don't mind declining dances from less attractive men as much as you assume.

Heck, maybe cabaceo isn't particularly to helpful to women.

That wording makes me smirk because it puts "checking the phone" last, after "even," as though it were a remote possibility. Whereas my experience some nights is that 90% of tangueras and 50% of tangueros have their phone out. I guess people here just have terrible phone etiquette. (My phone is switched off, hidden in a bag, the bag hidden under furniture . . . which appears to annoy people who dance with me and then want to "add me" on social media.)

Maybe the tangueras are on their phone more than the tangueros because it's less stressful than keeping an eye out for "cabaceo"? Meanwhile, the tangueros are involved in the less stressful activity of deciding who to ask?

 

[JournalInTime]

I hate it when the story breaks off mid-sentence and the person disappears onto the dance floor without warning. It's also bizarre when they then continue the story at exactly the same point twenty minutes later.

That may be cultural. On this side of the pond, it isn't uncommon to have 20-minute breaks with nobody leaving:

"Blah blah blah." Stares at the sky. Pops a beer. Drinks the beer at a leisurely pace. Stares at the sky more. "So as I was saying, blah blah blah."​

That's what I grew up around in Nova Scotia, a land of fishermen and nothing to do at night. So, it doesn't particularly bother me. Maybe it's a colonial white trash thing. I don't pretend to be U.

I painfully remember someone from such a group suddenly jumping up and approaching an alpha leader without any apparent prelude.

You needn't be an "alpha leader" (whatever that is) to experience that. You just need a strabismus and an optical prescription too severe for laser surgery or contact lenses, saddling you with eyeglasses that reflect light and distort how others see your eyes. At distances over a few metres, my gaze isn't a line but a cone: I invite everyone in a general area.

It becomes even more complicated when there are groups of people at a milonga who are there to socialise.

To be fair, that's a key part of what the milonga is for. I mean, "milonga" is an originally Bantu (I believe) word that means something like "shoot the breeze," adopted to identify the event as a place to chatter. Sociologists regard the physical location of a regular milonga as a "third place" whose primary purpose is social interaction, community building, and identity development, not dancing. While some nontraditional milongas have drifted, this aspect is still important to some of us.
As a keyboard cowboy who spends too many hours working from the same apartment where he cooks, eats, sleeps, does his laundry, etc. while his girlfriend – who can't work from home due to being an HR director – isn't there, my week offers little human contact. I write long screeds online because, hey, I'm spared 1-2 hours of daily commuting. And when the sun goes down and the milongas open, I get out to change which four walls surround me and to see people. I see dancing as equally important to this, and would hesitate to say that it's more important.

(Once again our community has shrunk to maybe 20 active dancers so if a leader is absent then there’s a lot of downtime).

Ouch, yeah, that changes the picture a lot!

I'm writing from the perspective of a greater metropolitan area with ~4.4 million people, with c. 20 weekly milongas and practilongas, many of them with 50+dancers who aren't the same from place to place. One of my nerdier teachers estimates that we have perhaps 10,000 people who've taken a tango class, 1,000 who still come out to dance at least once a year, and a revolving 100 regulars at our milongas. The global average for our population would fall between 160 and 2,400 people, depending on whose numbers you trust, so that seems plausible.

So why don’t I lead? I don’t enjoy it! I’ve tried it a few times but prefer to follow.

Many people have told me that being able to dance both roles makes one a better dancer. Accordingly, I learned to follow and will do so sometimes when I'm helping out in a class. It has helped my technique in certain areas, but I don't enjoy it at all.

Also, being a known longtime, profesionally coached leader in a city where the follower:leader ratio ranges from 3:2 at best to 3:1 or 4:1 in some cases, I'd be stabbed to death with high heels if I didn't lead!

Doesn't bother me, it works exactly like a book

That is my experience. Granted, it might be a function of one's brain. I used to have 3-4 books on the go at once, and I could return to any of them in any order with few ill effects on comprehension. When my girlfriend and I watch streaming series, I can jump right back into one paused mid-episode last year, while she must re-watch the entire season up to that point to pick up the thread. On the other hand, she has a far better memory for names, faces, and social encounters than I do. I don't know what psychology calls these qualities.

I (leader) actually go to milongas mainly to socialize.

I truly respect that and wish that more people would do it. I've encountered the belief that "tango friends aren't real friends," which I find more destructive to the culture of the milonga than any of the things that people like to complain about: tango nuevo, short tandas, long cortinas, ripped jeans, verbal invitations, women leaders, queer tango, . . .

Also, the later it gets, the better the music gets.

My favorite times to dance are right at the start (lots of floor, all my favorite partners who are older and have less stamina are there) and right at the end (lots of floor, tandas that help you burn up that floor, all my favorite partners who are younger and energetic are there). In between is the best time to socialize. It's less frustrating than being stuck behind 37 guys who lead slow, lyrical movements to El flete against a mobbed line of dance.

 

[JournalInTime]

Haha! What do you do if the "wrong one" accepts?

I dance with her. I'm constitutionally averse to interpersonal drama and conflict. I save that for politics and other societal domains.

Also, maybe the women don't mind declining dances from less attractive men as much as you assume.

Possibly! I have no idea where I rate on the attractiveness scale. None whatsoever. So, I have no reference point.

Maybe the tangueras are on their phone more than the tangueros because it's less stressful than keeping an eye out for "cabaceo"? Meanwhile, the tangueros are involved in the less stressful activity of deciding who to ask?

Quite possibly. One of my partners who loves her phone claims she's just using Shazam to identify the tangos, so who knows?

 

[opendoor]

Haha! What do you do if the "wrong one" accepts?

Sometimes two accept and approach me

 

[JournalInTime]

Funny how sometimes we want 'tradition' and alleged 'authenticity', but at other times it's just a 'dance'.

It helps to divide tango up some:

The physical dance. Huge numbers of tango arguments are about this. What steps are traditional, and should we aim for preservation, evolution, or even fusion? What is "tango nuevo," and if it's a dance style, is it good or bad for the future of AT? How valid are style labels such as "milonguero," "salon," and "nuevo" in general? Does the traditional apprenticeship model still matter in a world of for-profit dance studios with professional teachers, and universities offering PhDs in dance theory? Does the movement theory of these teachers and universities perpetuate or clash with traditional movements? And so on.

An individual milonga as an event. Lots of arguments here, too! Are the códigos a true cultural treasure from a more civilized time, worth preserving; a dated throwback to a more classist and sexist time, best binned; or a modern invention retro-projected onto the past in a fit of misguided romanticism? This breaks down into many sub-questions: Is the line of dance a real thing or a modern invention? Who can invite whom? How should we invite? Etc.

A recurring milonga at and as a location. The main argument here is: Is the milonga mainly a dance event, mainly a social event, or a bit of both? If a bit of both, what are the ideal proportions? Then the ones who pick "dance event" engage in subsidiary disputes about physical traits like floor size and quality, sound quality, lighting, and temperature. Those who pick "social event" like to pick apart the role and nature of bars, seating, food, and so on.

The music. Many arguments similar to those for the dance! Should milongas play only Epoca de Oro music by important orquestas? If yes, what are the lines of demarcation for the golden age, and which orquestas are "important"? If no, how far back (1925? 1920? 1900?) or beyond (1960? 1970? 2025?) are you allowed to go, and are origins (e.g., candombe) and extensions (e.g., tango alternativo and tango electrónico) permitted? Should pieces be deemed acceptable because they're from the right people during the right era, or only if modern musical theory can identify a tango structure? For that matter, does it actually help a dancer to understand musical theory, or does that make their dance too analytical and unspontaneous?

And of course you'll get meta-traditionalists who think the very act of dividing tango up the way I have is sacrilege!

Me, I believe in deconstruction into parts for analysis, so right there I'm not a real traditionalist. I'm also an ultra-progressive about the physical dance (I'm being coached more in movement and general dance theory than in tango), a moderate conservative about the milonga as an event (largely because I value all the codes of floorcraft), a conservative about the milonga as a location (it's my third place, my barber shop or tavern), and a moderate progressive about the music (mainly because my favorites are late D'Arienzo, late Pugliese, Salamanca, and Varela, but also because I find modern reimaginings of old tunes better than the originals). What does that make me? A mess!

 

[Miradamiranda]

I never have my phone with me in the milonga. It stays out in the wardrobe. Because a) I am happy in a milonga environment and don’t need a phone to distract me. B) I find it puts up a wall around the user. C) I have no pockets in my dance attire. D) I don’t have a specific seat or table to leave my stuff at. E) I’m mostly dancing a couple of blocks over on the other side of a border and my cell phone plan doesn’t cover that country. F) when I really want to Shazam a piece, I am likely on the dance floor or don’t want to run to the wardrobe to fish my phone out of my jacket, or I don’t have cell coverage. G) I personally think people fiddling with their phones look insecure. H) I don’t want to miss that cabeceo that might come well after the tanda has started.

I don’t socialize much when I’m at the milonga, probably my reputation among other women is that I’m reserved and/or shy, but it probably is just a remnant from a pattern set when I couldn’t speak the language, so they rarely engage in conversation with me. Most of my dance partners are chatty, though, and the cortinas are sometimes quite long here.

Whoever it was who upthread said loners might be getting more dances… that theory applies to me. I dance much more than the other women in my scene, also those who are better dancers and a lot younger/prettier than me. So maybe there’s a bit of resentment from other women, also.

 

[Tangogal]

Funny how sometimes we want 'tradition' and alleged 'authenticity', but at other times it's just a 'dance'.

I'm not criticising either option! All part of its evolution outside BsAs.

Nor I, just observing that it’s complicated. From the perspective of dancing or catching someone’s eye it is easier when others want to dance.

Someone gave the example earlier of a table of +1s at a supposedly balanced role event. How disappointing to try seeking a dance when they are only there to warm the seats.

 

[Miradamiranda]

maybe cabaceo isn't particularly to helpful to women.

Once I finally figured it out, I found it VERY empowering for women. For guys it’s a way to avoid losing face. For women it’s a way to actively ‘invite’ (show interest) without having to completely break with socially ingrained habits of feminine passivity, or at least pride.

 

[Brummbaer]

Haha! What do you do if the "wrong one" accepts?

Simple: I dance with her. Since cabeceo/mirada is pretty pointless when you can't see (myopia) without glasses, or be seen (poor lighting, general environment), it usually involves wandering over to some (known) group where one can see sufficiently. Sometimes it results in a 'discussion': What? Me? And it's never the 'wrong one'! Just go back again and invite another.

Or there's the scenario where you believe you've had a 'mirada', but it was intended for someone else. Maybe you even arrive simultaneously. Well, invite someone else there (if you really have to 'save face'), or go back somewhere. Maybe even next tanda.

I think this perhaps highlights the fact that cabaceo does not solve women's difficulties in turning down unwanted invitations.

I don't think it solves anyone's invitation issues any more than any other method. Depends on the milonga, and if there are PYTs and 'creeps'.

Also, maybe the women don't mind declining dances from less attractive men as much as you assume.

Now that provokes the unanswerable question of what women think in that situation! The inevitable question: What first attracted you to the millionaire...?

Never mind the question of what makes a woman attractive! Especially if the one I wake up with is here with me. They're part of some social group, they're alone and not getting dances, we've danced before, they seem simpático...

 

[Miradamiranda]

Someone gave the example earlier of a table of +1s at a supposedly balanced role event. How disappointing to try seeking a dance when they are only there to warm the seats.

Yeah those supposedly balanced events don’t always work. When I go to events that are not purposely balanced, I find there are more solos present, people who really want to dance, they are there because they want to dance, not because their partner dragged them along.