Not to spark another pro-am debate, but I have some questions

[SexyMan2Cha]

Hello everybody,

I'm trying to get an idea of how much a local, no flights/hotel involved, pro-am competition would cost when you're doing about 6-10 heats. I know this differs per teacher but it seems like teachers generally dodge this question. To the people that have done similar local pro-am comps, about how much?

I have strong doubts if pro-am is the way to go for me. Cost is a big issue.
I also have other questions about pro-am competition, trying to decide if it's right for me, but that will probably spark pro-am vs am-am debate #12,645

 

[SDsalsaguy]

And here I thought the count was up to at least 15k! :doh:

 

[Purr]

And here I thought the count was up to at least 15k! :doh:

For sure!

I'm sure for the instructor there will be a cost per day and cost per dance. That cost may vary widely according to the instructor. In addition, there will be a charge for admission to the ballroom (both the instructor and yours) as well as entry charge per dance.

 

[Dancefever]

Hello everybody,

I'm trying to get an idea of how much a local, no flights/hotel involved, pro-am competition would cost when you're doing about 6-10 heats. I know this differs per teacher but it seems like teachers generally dodge this question. To the people that have done similar local pro-am comps, about how much?

I have strong doubts if pro-am is the way to go for me. Cost is a big issue.
I also have other questions about pro-am competition, trying to decide if it's right for me, but that will probably spark pro-am vs am-am debate #12,645

Every comp is different, but ala carte pricing per heat for the NDCA comps I attend are about $35 per heat. The teacher is expected to be compensated for expenses. (GAS, costume cleaning, any food or lodging fees). Plus per heat fees, anywhere from $10 to $20 per heat, but that may be offset by the following. If he averages 200 bucks a day for teaching, somehow he should be compensated for that.

If you are only doing 6 to 10 heats, it is going to seem very expensive for the small amount of dances.

What a teacher charges is in direct proportion to how much he/she needs to make to make it worth his/her while. Some teachers might do it for prestiege, some to get noticed more by the judges, some to give the students a chance to do their stuff. Some might even do it to try to attract a professional partner.

If it seems like too much to make it worth your while, pass on it.

 

[Laura]

NDCA Pro/Am competition entry fees seem to run from about $20-$50 per heat, depending on the competition and depending on if your entry tickets to the ballroom are included or not.

You can find out the competition entry fees and ballroom ticket prices by going to the web site for that competition. You can find most of them by going to www.ndca.org and looking around down under the calendar to find a list of links to competitions.

Teacher's per-dance fees range wildly. I know one teacher who charges on a sliding scale -- the more heats you dance, the less per heat she charges. Her lowest-end scale was something like $10 per dance, but that is if you were doing a LOT of heats. Another teacher I know of charges a $5000 flat fee. Obviously these two are extremes. On a more average note, one of my old teachers charged $25 per dance. Another charged $40.

 

[latingal]

Hey SexyMan2Cha, pro am is expensive!

In my experience, you will be responsible (at a local comp) for the entry fee per dance (normally in my area around $35 per dance), your teacher's fee (mine costs around $30-$35 per dance), and your admission ticket(s) for the sessions you're dancing (normally around $15-$25 daytime, $35-$50 evening). You may also be asked to pay a fee for lessons forgone by your pro for the day of competition, meals and traveling expenses (and hotel if your pro stays at the hotel!).

Also, if you do scholarships sometimes the comp will require a certain number of single dances and buying a "package". Usually it's 5 single dances to do one scholarship. Packages usually contain some combination of the following; tickets for mutliple sessions, dinner, hotel room, program, a few discounts for single dances.

Hope that helps....

 

[DancingJools]

Let me sum it up a bit - in general terms. Expect to pay $ 70 - 120 PER HEAT, for pro-am, plus your own ticket to enter the ballroom for that session (usually 20 dollars for the entire session - it's really a negligible amount in the overall scheme of things). The range in this scale is determined by :1- the whim of your teacher. 2- the whim of your teacher, and 3- the whim of your teacher.
The pricing structure (or breakup of the cost, or justification of the cost, whatever) could be different from one teacher to another: i.e. a flat fee for the whole comp, or a fee per each dance, or a fee per each dance plus another fee if you get a recall, or a fee for the day, or a fee for dancing plus some or all of the teacher's own expenses for going to the comp, or a fee for the dancing and some or all of the teacher's costs and some or all of what he/she would have made if they hadn't gone dancing with you, or all of the above plus a "studio fee". So, it goes by many different names, but the total sum is what you care about.
Call it what you want. You'll end up paying 70 (low scale) to 120 (and more, on the high end), and that's per heat. This includes your "entry fee", payable to the comp organizers. You wanted the bottom line, right?
Most teachers expect you to do at least the five dances, and many will push, subtly or otherwise, to have you do at least 10, which is about the average # of dances for a pro-am student.
These numbers are mostly for non-franchise teachers/studios. I understand franchises tend to have higher total costs and higher sales perssure, but I have no personal experience in that.

Keep in mind, though, that if the HEAT is a multidance event, then there's some adjustments. Some (ok - most) teachers will expect the same fee for each dance, so multiply by five for a 5-dance championship, and may or may not discount the fact that the entry fee payable to the comp organizer is not really the multiple of five single dances, but more like twice.
Yeah, it gets complicated, but it remains expensive.

 

[SPratt74]

Let me sum it up a bit - in general terms. Expect to pay $ 70 - 120 PER HEAT, for pro-am, plus your own ticket to enter the ballroom for that session (usually 20 dollars for the entire session - it's really a negligible amount in the overall scheme of things). The range in this scale is determined by :1- the whim of your teacher. 2- the whim of your teacher, and 3- the whim of your teacher.
The pricing structure (or breakup of the cost, or justification of the cost, whatever) could be different from one teacher to another: i.e. a flat fee for the whole comp, or a fee per each dance, or a fee per each dance plus another fee if you get a recall, or a fee for the day, or a fee for dancing plus some or all of the teacher's own expenses for going to the comp, or a fee for the dancing and some or all of the teacher's costs and some or all of what he/she would have made if they hadn't gone dancing with you, or all of the above plus a "studio fee". So, it goes by many different names, but the total sum is what you care about.
Call it what you want. You'll end up paying 70 (low scale) to 120 (and more, on the high end), and that's per heat. This includes your "entry fee", payable to the comp organizers. You wanted the bottom line, right?
Most teachers expect you to do at least the five dances, and many will push, subtly or otherwise, to have you do at least 10, which is about the average # of dances for a pro-am student.
These numbers are mostly for non-franchise teachers/studios. I understand franchises tend to have higher total costs and higher sales perssure, but I have no personal experience in that.

Why do you have to pay for your teacher? What does that mean? Do you get the chance to have a new teacher, or are you paying for your normal teacher?

 

[alemana]

this is how pros make money, dancing pro-am.

 

[DancingJools]

Also, if you do scholarships sometimes the comp will require a certain number of single dances and buying a "package". Usually it's 5 single dances to do one scholarship. Packages usually contain some combination of the following; tickets for mutliple sessions, dinner, hotel room, program, a few discounts for single dances.

Hope that helps....

Latingal - I know of comps requiring that if you do a scholarship (but not a championship), you must also do a minimum number of other dances (usually five). The logic of course is that scholarhsip events award money, and you're not supposed to take from the pot without putting in something, otherwise people will show up just to do the scholarship (as if!!) But I don't know of any comp that requires you to buy a package in order to dance in a scholarship or championship. I'd be interested in knowing which ones have such a requirement.
I know that some studios will require you to buy a package. Resist that, if you can, unless this is something you want to do.
But then that takes us into another subject - the art of financial voodoo in pro-am.

 

[SPratt74]

But then that takes us into another subject - the art of financial voodoo in pro-am.

Oh no kidding! I couldn't imagine paying $5000 for something like this like what one poster said. You must really want it if you are willing to pay that much money!

 

[DancingJools]

Yeah - don't forget to add the cost of your lessons in order to get you prepared for the comp.
People think pro-ams spend their money on clothes and hotels. That's actually the smaller part of their expenses.
Pro-ams spend their money on their teachers. This is what keeps the wheels rolling in the whole business.

 

[Laura]

But I don't know of any comp that requires you to buy a package in order to dance in a scholarship or championship. I'd be interested in knowing which ones have such a requirement.

Just before I quit doing Pro/Am 2 years ago, it started being a requirement at some of competitions I tend to go to/to look in to. I seem to recall that San Francisco Open was one of them. I've seen it in a few other NDCA comps, too, although it wasn't widespread at the time. Fortunately for me, the comps that required packages had a day package that included admission to the ballroom, a program, dinner, and a free dance heat entry or two. It actually worked out to be a decent savings over buying things a la carte if you counted the dinner as being worth $20 and if you did at least 5 single dance entries. The reason for the packages in these cases was probably related to the dinner -- some venues require a food and beverage minimum if you rent the ballroom over the weekend. By getting people on package, you technically can count the people toward that minium, even if they don't show up to eat.

 

[Laura]

Oh no kidding! I couldn't imagine paying $5000 for something like this like what one poster said. You must really want it if you are willing to pay that much money!

A teacher who has produced the top Pro/Am women in his category within the past few years charges this. So yes, these women really want it. That's part of what I meant when I said something on another thread about playing the Pro/Am game. If you want to win on the highest levels, you've got to shell out for the best teacher, and they charge a lot for competing with them (although I find their lesson costs to be in line with what most very good pros charge).

 

[SexyMan2Cha]

Wow, thanks for all the replies! It's been less then 2 hours and we're already on page 2. Is anyone working today??

With this teacher I won't have to pay studio fees, plus she won't have me pay for idiocies like "she could have been doing something else instead dancing with me". I can't believe teachers/studios would charge for that, has gotta be franchise studio thing.

So for in between 6 to 10 heats, say 8, I would expect the cost to be around $600-$800.

Could I assume that an am-am comp with the same number of heats would cost roughly half as much?

Hmm, I have a hard time figuring out if pro-am is worth it to me.