outdoorman1234
Member
Nice post considering what day it is.
Not touchy feely
- Thread starter Tango Distance
- Start date
Reuven Thetanguero
Well-Known Member
How interesting, the same university grad students (a competing team) contacted me as well, except that they found me on Facebook - not here. They wanted to figure out why I have problems dancing in open embrace...
Tango Distance
Well-Known Member
That is one of the best April Fool's Day posts ever! It has humor at multiple levels.
At a shallow level, expressing desire for no April Fool's Day jokes on April Fool's Day... Do we believe it, or is it yet another joke?
Going a level deeper, instead of just making a call for an end to April Fool's Day jokes, there is a reach to the impossible: A magic talisman that will grant three wishes. Is it to employ hyberbole to make the point? Is it to show despair that reasoned argument will not work, and one must hope for the impossible? Or is it a 2nd gem of an April Fool's joke buried within the first?
Going yet another layer deeper: Instead of wishing for things like world peace,a cure for cancer, etc. a wish is wasted on not wanting to hear a particular kind of joke one day a year. But wait, it was posted on April Fool's Day...
That was a brilliant post and deserving of its likes!
At a shallow level, expressing desire for no April Fool's Day jokes on April Fool's Day... Do we believe it, or is it yet another joke?
Going a level deeper, instead of just making a call for an end to April Fool's Day jokes, there is a reach to the impossible: A magic talisman that will grant three wishes. Is it to employ hyberbole to make the point? Is it to show despair that reasoned argument will not work, and one must hope for the impossible? Or is it a 2nd gem of an April Fool's joke buried within the first?
Going yet another layer deeper: Instead of wishing for things like world peace,a cure for cancer, etc. a wish is wasted on not wanting to hear a particular kind of joke one day a year. But wait, it was posted on April Fool's Day...
That was a brilliant post and deserving of its likes!
rain_dog said:
Tango Distance
Well-Known Member
Tango Distance Pretends to be Cured
My April Fool's Day (AFD) post was conceived and written a long time ago. I had to wait for the perfect day to post it. It totally fooled my mom and my mother-in-law. They were so happy. My dad said he went through the same therapy and now could not stop hugging trees and that they would be moving to the Redwood Forest.
DW and I traveled to a Tango workshop. I had the thought, what if I acted as if my post were true? With so many ladies who did not know me, it was a reset of sorts. It was a new personal Milonga record. Instead of doing 2 or 3 songs of CE with my special friend nonDW ladies (songs, not tandas), I did maybe 15 tandas of CE with nonDW ladies, most of them strangers. That's about 15 times the nonDW CE than I usually do!
Since then I have reverted back to my mostly OE mode, but it was a step forward to just do it. I also had two new experiences, maybe due to pretending to be "cured."
One lady was a visitor from, well, nevermind. She was naturally beautiful, but also had perfect attire, had perfect makeup, a perfect hairdo, and smelled like cinnamon rolls. Just kidding, but she was heavily perfumed yet smelled nice. The dance steps did not go perfectly, but she did radiate sexiness. It was not the drunken brashness of the 75 kg fish, but a subtle, couldn't-quite-define-how-exactly-she-was-doing-it sensuality. Did I mention where she came from? Oh wait, that could be a step towards deanonymizing me, never mind that. There was a large number of people, but one person took and posted many more pictures of the two of us than anyone else -- it seems they saw something special about our tanda. (BTW DW and I get photographed disproportionately, too.) The tanda ended, she expressed great appreciation and a bit of reluctance to part ways, but did and that was the end.
Was this the connection of which Tango people speak? Was this like the "10 minute affair" description I have read of Tango? Is this how every tanda is supposed to go?
Sorry to take the romance out of it, but forging ahead fearlessly: My Tango has traditionally been like one-on-one basketball. One person cuts right, the defense cuts the same way to stop them. It is a dance of sorts. Good exercise? YES! Fun? Yes! Sensual? No. Sexy? NO!
I had another dance where things just flowed. I was doing Tango and nonTango moves, and this lady responded beautifully and as if she knew what was coming. I don't think I could have designed a choreography as good as what happened spontaneously. She was beaming and said it was fun. I told her it was one of the most fun Tandas ever for me. A couple of days later, it suddenly hit me: That tanda was Blues music, so that might have been part of the magic.
It's not a CE story, but I did some wildly fast and big moves dancing with an elderly lady to rock-and-roll cortina music. We got applause from 5 or so of her friends at the end of the song, I think that made her night.
The other 13 or so tandas went well, too. My clumsy CE has felt slow and heavy to me. I'm learning more CE moves, getting some CE lessons, and learning when and how to open the embrace a bit for some moves, so CE has been getting more fun.
I patted myself on the back, and chalked up a "been there, done that" victory. Then my own words came back to me, that it takes 9 events to have 99% statistical significance...
My April Fool's Day (AFD) post was conceived and written a long time ago. I had to wait for the perfect day to post it. It totally fooled my mom and my mother-in-law. They were so happy. My dad said he went through the same therapy and now could not stop hugging trees and that they would be moving to the Redwood Forest.
DW and I traveled to a Tango workshop. I had the thought, what if I acted as if my post were true? With so many ladies who did not know me, it was a reset of sorts. It was a new personal Milonga record. Instead of doing 2 or 3 songs of CE with my special friend nonDW ladies (songs, not tandas), I did maybe 15 tandas of CE with nonDW ladies, most of them strangers. That's about 15 times the nonDW CE than I usually do!
Since then I have reverted back to my mostly OE mode, but it was a step forward to just do it. I also had two new experiences, maybe due to pretending to be "cured."
One lady was a visitor from, well, nevermind. She was naturally beautiful, but also had perfect attire, had perfect makeup, a perfect hairdo, and smelled like cinnamon rolls. Just kidding, but she was heavily perfumed yet smelled nice. The dance steps did not go perfectly, but she did radiate sexiness. It was not the drunken brashness of the 75 kg fish, but a subtle, couldn't-quite-define-how-exactly-she-was-doing-it sensuality. Did I mention where she came from? Oh wait, that could be a step towards deanonymizing me, never mind that. There was a large number of people, but one person took and posted many more pictures of the two of us than anyone else -- it seems they saw something special about our tanda. (BTW DW and I get photographed disproportionately, too.) The tanda ended, she expressed great appreciation and a bit of reluctance to part ways, but did and that was the end.
Was this the connection of which Tango people speak? Was this like the "10 minute affair" description I have read of Tango? Is this how every tanda is supposed to go?
Sorry to take the romance out of it, but forging ahead fearlessly: My Tango has traditionally been like one-on-one basketball. One person cuts right, the defense cuts the same way to stop them. It is a dance of sorts. Good exercise? YES! Fun? Yes! Sensual? No. Sexy? NO!
I had another dance where things just flowed. I was doing Tango and nonTango moves, and this lady responded beautifully and as if she knew what was coming. I don't think I could have designed a choreography as good as what happened spontaneously. She was beaming and said it was fun. I told her it was one of the most fun Tandas ever for me. A couple of days later, it suddenly hit me: That tanda was Blues music, so that might have been part of the magic.
It's not a CE story, but I did some wildly fast and big moves dancing with an elderly lady to rock-and-roll cortina music. We got applause from 5 or so of her friends at the end of the song, I think that made her night.
The other 13 or so tandas went well, too. My clumsy CE has felt slow and heavy to me. I'm learning more CE moves, getting some CE lessons, and learning when and how to open the embrace a bit for some moves, so CE has been getting more fun.
I patted myself on the back, and chalked up a "been there, done that" victory. Then my own words came back to me, that it takes 9 events to have 99% statistical significance...
Last edited:
Tango Distance
Well-Known Member
Tango Distance Dances with Someone on DF
In the course of my travels and Tangos, I happened to dance with a lady who is here on DF. I didn't say anything about my having posted here. She was a very good follower and very nice.
In the course of my travels and Tangos, I happened to dance with a lady who is here on DF. I didn't say anything about my having posted here. She was a very good follower and very nice.
using what statistical test, or just riffing? (Sorry for the serious question.)
Tango Distance
Well-Known Member
Tango Distance said:
I did a quick-and-dirty in my head. It has some approximations -- the statistics are Poisson, not Gaussian, and 9 is not really a large N, and there are some other issues like the events not really being independent from each other. It would be fun to work out the Poisson case for dependent statistics, I might do that yet.Steve Pastor said:
Standard deviation of a random counted quantity = sqrt(N). For the case of having done it 9 times: sqrt(9) = 3.
9/3 = 3 => 0 is 3 standard deviations away from 9. 3 standard deviations is 99+% certainty.
Since the Poisson distribution lacks a long left tail, I'd expect it would actually be fewer than 9 events to be 99% significant.
Tango Distance
Well-Known Member
Wow, I can't believe it has been a year since I have posted in my thread. There have been some "life happens" events that lessened dancing for my DW (dear wife) and me during 3 different time spans in the last year. Also, I have actually continued writing up my little adventures, but have not been posting them. Part of me said I was becoming just part of the crowd, so I thought maybe I was done posting on this thread. I gave it some more thought, and had two realizations. One is even posting some "boring" and "common" Tango successes is an important part of my journey, so others can see how far things can unfold. The other part is I'm still continuing down the Touchy Feely path. I'm way ahead of where I was, but still far behind the average dancer at a Milonga. Not to worry, good things are happening, my dancing continues to improve and the Tango Distance actually gave his mother-in-law a two armed hug.
This story was from some time ago:
Tango Distance's Almost Solo Private
I have had enough group classes at this point I am thinking about doing private lessons. To date, DW and I had one, a couple's private. It went well, and I did not dance much with the male instructor.
As all of you dear Shibes know, I had a rocky start with Tango, but I'm gradually becoming just another Tango regular. If a lady demanded "We will do close embrace next time" I would not avoid that Milonga or that person. Indeed, this has happened. Anyway, I'm feeling cocky that I'm now a small but statistically significantly above zero fraction of Enrique Blanco. I have a ways to go, but at least I'm saying, "Hey, what's a little close embrace between friends? I wouldn't hold that against them!"
With what-I-thought-was-real confidence I signed up for a private. It was to be a solo private with just me and an expert female Tango instructor. Less than 14 hours after I signed up, I realized my confidence was the false bravado of a losing politician! I briefly considered canceling the appointment, but wrote this post instead (for the record, written some time ago). Increase speed to one-half impulse.
When I first mentioned doing a private, my DW said to go ahead without her. That lasted a few hours, then she showed interest in going. Unfortunately for her, her work schedule interfered with doing the private, until the last moment when she was able to go after all.
This instructor is from Argentina. The instructor's YouTube videos show close embrace. I braced myself for close embrace and a hug gauntlet -- from my readings that was a reasonable expectation.
The lesson started with a hug for my DW, but none for me. To my surprise, the instructor did everything in open embrace. At the end, we did the wimpiest, shortest, barely meets the legal definition of a hug. She was the one that was the wimpy hugger! So much for what I have heard about people from Argentina (not that I was complaining!).
I passed the private with flying colors. Being the Tango Distance, I started analyzing the situation. Now wait a moment... That was easy, too easy. Does she treat all her U.S.A. customers that way? Was she an instant and very good read of body language? Then, a sneaking suspicion crept into my brain... Maybe the instructor had been given foreknowledge!
It was at a studio where the resident Tango instructor knows some of my Tango Distance foibles. I asked, and sure enough the local instructor had told the visiting instructor I was, um, special.
This story was from some time ago:
Tango Distance's Almost Solo Private
I have had enough group classes at this point I am thinking about doing private lessons. To date, DW and I had one, a couple's private. It went well, and I did not dance much with the male instructor.
As all of you dear Shibes know, I had a rocky start with Tango, but I'm gradually becoming just another Tango regular. If a lady demanded "We will do close embrace next time" I would not avoid that Milonga or that person. Indeed, this has happened. Anyway, I'm feeling cocky that I'm now a small but statistically significantly above zero fraction of Enrique Blanco. I have a ways to go, but at least I'm saying, "Hey, what's a little close embrace between friends? I wouldn't hold that against them!"
With what-I-thought-was-real confidence I signed up for a private. It was to be a solo private with just me and an expert female Tango instructor. Less than 14 hours after I signed up, I realized my confidence was the false bravado of a losing politician! I briefly considered canceling the appointment, but wrote this post instead (for the record, written some time ago). Increase speed to one-half impulse.
When I first mentioned doing a private, my DW said to go ahead without her. That lasted a few hours, then she showed interest in going. Unfortunately for her, her work schedule interfered with doing the private, until the last moment when she was able to go after all.
This instructor is from Argentina. The instructor's YouTube videos show close embrace. I braced myself for close embrace and a hug gauntlet -- from my readings that was a reasonable expectation.
The lesson started with a hug for my DW, but none for me. To my surprise, the instructor did everything in open embrace. At the end, we did the wimpiest, shortest, barely meets the legal definition of a hug. She was the one that was the wimpy hugger! So much for what I have heard about people from Argentina (not that I was complaining!).
I passed the private with flying colors. Being the Tango Distance, I started analyzing the situation. Now wait a moment... That was easy, too easy. Does she treat all her U.S.A. customers that way? Was she an instant and very good read of body language? Then, a sneaking suspicion crept into my brain... Maybe the instructor had been given foreknowledge!
It was at a studio where the resident Tango instructor knows some of my Tango Distance foibles. I asked, and sure enough the local instructor had told the visiting instructor I was, um, special.
Tango Distance
Well-Known Member
This story is more recent:
Tango Distance does a Private with an Instructor with Psychic Abilities
This was my 3rd private. The 1st was with my favorite group teacher. It was OK, but I didn't do a 2nd one. The story above was my 2nd private. It was good, I got my money's worth. Then I had my 3rd private lesson with a 3rd instructor. Wow!
First off, she was unbelievably perceptive. We started by pressing our hands together, in a very open embrace. She could feel which joints were tense. She could feel when a leg was straight or bent. It was amazing to the point that several times in the lesson I asked, "How can you tell that?" I might have thought she was doing this via incredible peripheral vision, but she could tell these things just as well in close embrace.
OK, so she is a six sigma kind of person when it comes to reading body mechanics via touch. There is nothing mysterious, it's just something that most of us have not mastered. I am a man of science. Then, she started reading my mind. We would be going along, and Mr. Analytical here would start thinking hard about things like what the feet were supposed to be doing, lean angles, etc. She would stop and say that I was thinking too much, there wasn't enough time for deep analysis, and that I needed to feel the dancing and be instinctive. She would then briefly lead and show me the difference, illustrative facial expressions included. It was fun to see my TD thinking hard face mirrored back at me! This leads into my next point.
She is a master of "turning it on and turning it off." Dancing with people (instructors included) feels like it is flowing, or like it is not quite flowing perfectly. She could turn that on or off instantly. For example, she would lead and show me, "This is what you are doing." The motions were right, our feet were hitting the floor in the right places, no one was in danger of getting stepped upon or kicked, but somehow it wasn't flowing. Then she would say "... and this is how you want to do it." There was an instant step function then to just flowing effortlessly. I've heard it is hard for a good singer to sing off key even if they try, I can imagine it is hard for an expert Tango dancer to intentionally do something the wrong way.
Most instructors tell you what to do, and will point out when you are doing it wrong. While she did this, she mostly reduced my dance to essentials. I was doing too much contrabody motion -- she showed me the difference by leading and explained too much was adding noise to my lead (noise wasn't her exact phrase, but it is a good engineering description). BTW no other instructor had picked up on this. Then she picked up on I was rocking my shoulders a bit, something else that added noise to my lead. She explained the goal was to have as direct read of the legs as possible, and not add competing extra motions with the upper body. Again, it was something no other instructor had told me.
We also discussed a bit that I need to expand my awareness sphere. I tend to put a lot of my mental focus on the follower's feet, and she said if I could read the follower's whole body there would be no need for further lessons! That's something else new, this is the first instructor I've had that put a finish line on lessons (not that I'll ever get there!).
After I got rid of my extraneous motions, stopped thinking too hard, and increased my sphere of focus, she said my close embrace walk was perfect and some Spanish words I didn't understand but by tone and context I think meant "very good." The TD has some work to do on his perception skills. I could hear her words and understood them, I know the steps were flowing, but it was hard for me to gauge how well she was enjoying things by the touch of the dance itself -- she later said there were no secrets in Tango. That might be true for her but the TD still has things to learn. Days later I realized that has been a bit of a hole in my Tango. I know how I feel and have been using that as feedback, but not as sure about how the follower feels. Knowing that would help complete the feedback loop. Hmmm, maybe increasing that sphere of awareness will help.
I'm used to instructors ending the lesson right at the 49 minute and 59.9 second mark, and encouraging the students to go home. I can't blame them, as much fun as Tango is they often do have day jobs, kids waiting for them, home chores, etc. In contrast, this instructor seemed happy to talk Tango after the lesson. We talked a bit about Tango Distance and hugs -- she said that was a common problem in her experience in the U.S.A., but that I would not have had that issue had I grown up in Argentina.
We had an interesting point of disagreement. I mentioned I thought Mr. X was the best dancer in our area. She said she had danced with him before and disagreed. I clarified, "to watch." (BTW he also competes in another dance form.) Hmmm, that might be worth further conversation, I suspect this gets right to the crux of dancing that feels good to the lady vs. looks good to the crowd.
She also said she really enjoyed the lesson with me. I must have given her the "You say that to everyone" look -- or maybe it was her psychic mind reading abilities. She iterated she really did, and that technical people were fun to teach. She said unlike many students, I paid close attention the whole hour, had great curiousity, and really wanted to learn. I told her I was surprised, you'd think at the price of privates all students would be paying rapt attention!
I tell my nondance friends I dance, but do not tell them about a particular dance lesson. This one was so good I told several of them of my amazements. I'm very much looking forward to the next time she passes through my area and I can grab another private lesson.
Tango Distance does a Private with an Instructor with Psychic Abilities
This was my 3rd private. The 1st was with my favorite group teacher. It was OK, but I didn't do a 2nd one. The story above was my 2nd private. It was good, I got my money's worth. Then I had my 3rd private lesson with a 3rd instructor. Wow!
First off, she was unbelievably perceptive. We started by pressing our hands together, in a very open embrace. She could feel which joints were tense. She could feel when a leg was straight or bent. It was amazing to the point that several times in the lesson I asked, "How can you tell that?" I might have thought she was doing this via incredible peripheral vision, but she could tell these things just as well in close embrace.
OK, so she is a six sigma kind of person when it comes to reading body mechanics via touch. There is nothing mysterious, it's just something that most of us have not mastered. I am a man of science. Then, she started reading my mind. We would be going along, and Mr. Analytical here would start thinking hard about things like what the feet were supposed to be doing, lean angles, etc. She would stop and say that I was thinking too much, there wasn't enough time for deep analysis, and that I needed to feel the dancing and be instinctive. She would then briefly lead and show me the difference, illustrative facial expressions included. It was fun to see my TD thinking hard face mirrored back at me! This leads into my next point.
She is a master of "turning it on and turning it off." Dancing with people (instructors included) feels like it is flowing, or like it is not quite flowing perfectly. She could turn that on or off instantly. For example, she would lead and show me, "This is what you are doing." The motions were right, our feet were hitting the floor in the right places, no one was in danger of getting stepped upon or kicked, but somehow it wasn't flowing. Then she would say "... and this is how you want to do it." There was an instant step function then to just flowing effortlessly. I've heard it is hard for a good singer to sing off key even if they try, I can imagine it is hard for an expert Tango dancer to intentionally do something the wrong way.
Most instructors tell you what to do, and will point out when you are doing it wrong. While she did this, she mostly reduced my dance to essentials. I was doing too much contrabody motion -- she showed me the difference by leading and explained too much was adding noise to my lead (noise wasn't her exact phrase, but it is a good engineering description). BTW no other instructor had picked up on this. Then she picked up on I was rocking my shoulders a bit, something else that added noise to my lead. She explained the goal was to have as direct read of the legs as possible, and not add competing extra motions with the upper body. Again, it was something no other instructor had told me.
We also discussed a bit that I need to expand my awareness sphere. I tend to put a lot of my mental focus on the follower's feet, and she said if I could read the follower's whole body there would be no need for further lessons! That's something else new, this is the first instructor I've had that put a finish line on lessons (not that I'll ever get there!).
After I got rid of my extraneous motions, stopped thinking too hard, and increased my sphere of focus, she said my close embrace walk was perfect and some Spanish words I didn't understand but by tone and context I think meant "very good." The TD has some work to do on his perception skills. I could hear her words and understood them, I know the steps were flowing, but it was hard for me to gauge how well she was enjoying things by the touch of the dance itself -- she later said there were no secrets in Tango. That might be true for her but the TD still has things to learn. Days later I realized that has been a bit of a hole in my Tango. I know how I feel and have been using that as feedback, but not as sure about how the follower feels. Knowing that would help complete the feedback loop. Hmmm, maybe increasing that sphere of awareness will help.
I'm used to instructors ending the lesson right at the 49 minute and 59.9 second mark, and encouraging the students to go home. I can't blame them, as much fun as Tango is they often do have day jobs, kids waiting for them, home chores, etc. In contrast, this instructor seemed happy to talk Tango after the lesson. We talked a bit about Tango Distance and hugs -- she said that was a common problem in her experience in the U.S.A., but that I would not have had that issue had I grown up in Argentina.
We had an interesting point of disagreement. I mentioned I thought Mr. X was the best dancer in our area. She said she had danced with him before and disagreed. I clarified, "to watch." (BTW he also competes in another dance form.) Hmmm, that might be worth further conversation, I suspect this gets right to the crux of dancing that feels good to the lady vs. looks good to the crowd.
She also said she really enjoyed the lesson with me. I must have given her the "You say that to everyone" look -- or maybe it was her psychic mind reading abilities. She iterated she really did, and that technical people were fun to teach. She said unlike many students, I paid close attention the whole hour, had great curiousity, and really wanted to learn. I told her I was surprised, you'd think at the price of privates all students would be paying rapt attention!
I tell my nondance friends I dance, but do not tell them about a particular dance lesson. This one was so good I told several of them of my amazements. I'm very much looking forward to the next time she passes through my area and I can grab another private lesson.
ArbeeNYC
Forum Master
Hmm. I think I'd like to study with this person, too. Care to share?
Just noticed this when I read your most recent posts.... there aren't many women on the tango thread here. It wasn't me by any chance was it? I would have loved to have known! Oh wait.. you said she was nice...
Me too! You can PM me the name if you don't want to post it
Please, send me a PM as well. I'm very interested in taking a lesson from her as well.
ArbeeNYC
Forum Master
Yes, a PM would be fine. Seriously.