That’s Entertainment... welcome change of pace for our times.
Not touchy feely
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Tango Distance
Well-Known Member
Happy Ladies
All this happened in about a 2 week period.
During one of my trips to one of the nation’s largest cities, I stopped by a Milonga. It was different in that everyone seemed to be good friends, and they all sat at one big table. Not much dancing was going on. A nice lady, earlier introduced to me as an instructor, asked me to dance. It went very well, and multiple times she said I had good musicality.
At a 2nd milonga on that trip, the host at the door apologized for such a poor turnout. “We used to get around 150 people, but now it is down to about 50,” he moaned. I told him that 50 was a huge milonga back home! A big city lady and I had a good tanda. I could tell she really enjoyed it. Later that night, she caught me and asked what the best tango event was in my little city. I described it, and she grabbed a business card and asked me to email her details, making her partner for that tanda wait. That’s a new one for me, a big city slicker asking about doing tango in my little area! Maybe that tanda went so well she was willing to travel thousands of kilometers to replicate the experience? Or maybe it was my enthusiastic explanation of the melding of car culture and Tango at the premiere yearly Tango event in my little area? Though my local tango emporium is humble, Joe’s Tango and Oil Change (C), with the most slippery floors in the nation, has some great people, great events, and great automobiles.
I still learn things in beginners’ classes. I also find dance is one of the few things that can still my busy mind. Busy-ness of mind is not usually a bother, but the TD (TM) was seeking some temporary escape.
At a beginner’s swing class, things were going very well and newbie ladies and I were having great fun. Partner switches were rare. One lady was struggling. My partner recognized this, asked if the lady wanted to switch, and they switched so the lady could get help from me (I had taken the class before) rather than struggle with her newbie partner. It was great to see the ladies taking care of each other like that.
The final event was a beginners’ tango class I attended. I have had the phenomenon where college aged ladies giggle with joy the whole tanda. The older (let’s say the typical ages of tenured professors) ladies tend to be more reserved. This night, the Distance was on fire, and the older ladies were having a great time. Steps too advanced for beginners were just happening. “You know this song!” “Actually I don’t!” “You’ve done this before!” “Yep!” “That was so much fun!” “Yes, it was!” Perhaps the best was a lady who entered with permafrown but left the class with permagrin.
Speaking of grinning, the TD was smiling a lot during the class. I found this interesting link about smiling:
getpocket.com
All this happened in about a 2 week period.
During one of my trips to one of the nation’s largest cities, I stopped by a Milonga. It was different in that everyone seemed to be good friends, and they all sat at one big table. Not much dancing was going on. A nice lady, earlier introduced to me as an instructor, asked me to dance. It went very well, and multiple times she said I had good musicality.
At a 2nd milonga on that trip, the host at the door apologized for such a poor turnout. “We used to get around 150 people, but now it is down to about 50,” he moaned. I told him that 50 was a huge milonga back home! A big city lady and I had a good tanda. I could tell she really enjoyed it. Later that night, she caught me and asked what the best tango event was in my little city. I described it, and she grabbed a business card and asked me to email her details, making her partner for that tanda wait. That’s a new one for me, a big city slicker asking about doing tango in my little area! Maybe that tanda went so well she was willing to travel thousands of kilometers to replicate the experience? Or maybe it was my enthusiastic explanation of the melding of car culture and Tango at the premiere yearly Tango event in my little area? Though my local tango emporium is humble, Joe’s Tango and Oil Change (C), with the most slippery floors in the nation, has some great people, great events, and great automobiles.
I still learn things in beginners’ classes. I also find dance is one of the few things that can still my busy mind. Busy-ness of mind is not usually a bother, but the TD (TM) was seeking some temporary escape.
At a beginner’s swing class, things were going very well and newbie ladies and I were having great fun. Partner switches were rare. One lady was struggling. My partner recognized this, asked if the lady wanted to switch, and they switched so the lady could get help from me (I had taken the class before) rather than struggle with her newbie partner. It was great to see the ladies taking care of each other like that.
The final event was a beginners’ tango class I attended. I have had the phenomenon where college aged ladies giggle with joy the whole tanda. The older (let’s say the typical ages of tenured professors) ladies tend to be more reserved. This night, the Distance was on fire, and the older ladies were having a great time. Steps too advanced for beginners were just happening. “You know this song!” “Actually I don’t!” “You’ve done this before!” “Yep!” “That was so much fun!” “Yes, it was!” Perhaps the best was a lady who entered with permafrown but left the class with permagrin.
Speaking of grinning, the TD was smiling a lot during the class. I found this interesting link about smiling:
Neuroscience Says Doing This 1 Thing Makes You Just as Happy as Eating 2,000 Chocolate Bars
It also gives you the same neurological boost as receiving $25,000.
Tango Distance
Well-Known Member
In the Snobs, but Not of the Snobs
This post is going to seem to wander about – read to the end to see how it all comes together. My dear wife and I traveled to a Tango weekend. Though it was nominally a gender balanced event, it had more women than men. Over the course of 3 days, I had no trouble getting dances. The only likely definite “no” I had was one lady seemed to be very intent on avoiding my cabeceo, I had no clue why. No worries, there were many more fish in this sea!
There might have been a 2nd “no,” or not, but the lady was intriguing so I remember her. Class rotation made us partners. She asked “May I hug you?” Wow, I think that was the 1st time I had that question from a Tango person who did not already know me well. I don’t know if she asked everyone that question, or just sensed some Tango Distopia. She was tall for a woman. She gave me a very intense full body hug. I have had very appreciative hugs at the end of a good tanda. I have never had a greeting hug from a stranger with that kind of intensity. It was a strange moment for me – it was so openly giving to someone she owed nothing. It reminds me of HugoPT’s discourse on types of hugs. (Hey, I just realized “HugoPT” starts with “Hug!”) Hmmm, maybe this could be a foreshadowing of one of those magic tandas about which DF tango forums posters rave. She was very popular. When I got a chance to cabeceo, she looked away, and I did not get a 2nd chance. I wondered if maybe she thought my reciprocal of her hug was disqualifying. The mystery remains to this day.
I decided to try an experiment. I downloaded a Python environment to my phone, and wrote a short program that randomly picked a number from 1 to 8, inclusive. After each tanda I looked at my phone, tapped the “run” button, and was given a random number from 1 to 8. 1 indicated ask the next person, 2 meant skip one to ask the 2nd person, etc. It was very eye opening. I didn’t realize how much internal dialog I was doing when I would ask ladies to dance. “Oh, she is so beautiful, would she say yes to a mere mortal like me?” “Oh, she is so popular or so good or both, she’ll be bored dancing with me.” “She has not been dancing much (or has been dancing a lot), maybe she is really picky or popular and will reject me?” It turns out these kinds of thoughts were barriers of my own making. Lady after lady said yes, tall, short, beautiful, young, old, skilled, and less skilled. It was an eye opening exercise I seriously suggest trying (you could flip a coin 3 times, or use a random number table, or there must be an app for that).
Several of my local Tango friends had traveled to attend. Near the end of the weekend, a very popular in our little area, but elderly dancer I know complained none of the younger ladies would dance with him. After the event, my Dear Wife (DW) said the organizer lamented the event was becoming snobby. A week or so later, I bumped into a solid intermediate I know. He said he was turned down many times. He did need some fine tuning on his cabeceo technique, which I helped with, but I suspect it was more that he was not a highly experienced dancer.
I was oblivious there were fellow leader friends of mine, having trouble at an event with more women than men. I’m not sure exactly why I had such a good go, maybe it was the 5 minus epsilon years of experience. I mixed things up and asked all kinds of ladies, and tried to be sure to take care of ladies who seemed to be having a dry spell. I was in the snobs, but not of the snobs.
This post is going to seem to wander about – read to the end to see how it all comes together. My dear wife and I traveled to a Tango weekend. Though it was nominally a gender balanced event, it had more women than men. Over the course of 3 days, I had no trouble getting dances. The only likely definite “no” I had was one lady seemed to be very intent on avoiding my cabeceo, I had no clue why. No worries, there were many more fish in this sea!
There might have been a 2nd “no,” or not, but the lady was intriguing so I remember her. Class rotation made us partners. She asked “May I hug you?” Wow, I think that was the 1st time I had that question from a Tango person who did not already know me well. I don’t know if she asked everyone that question, or just sensed some Tango Distopia. She was tall for a woman. She gave me a very intense full body hug. I have had very appreciative hugs at the end of a good tanda. I have never had a greeting hug from a stranger with that kind of intensity. It was a strange moment for me – it was so openly giving to someone she owed nothing. It reminds me of HugoPT’s discourse on types of hugs. (Hey, I just realized “HugoPT” starts with “Hug!”) Hmmm, maybe this could be a foreshadowing of one of those magic tandas about which DF tango forums posters rave. She was very popular. When I got a chance to cabeceo, she looked away, and I did not get a 2nd chance. I wondered if maybe she thought my reciprocal of her hug was disqualifying. The mystery remains to this day.
I decided to try an experiment. I downloaded a Python environment to my phone, and wrote a short program that randomly picked a number from 1 to 8, inclusive. After each tanda I looked at my phone, tapped the “run” button, and was given a random number from 1 to 8. 1 indicated ask the next person, 2 meant skip one to ask the 2nd person, etc. It was very eye opening. I didn’t realize how much internal dialog I was doing when I would ask ladies to dance. “Oh, she is so beautiful, would she say yes to a mere mortal like me?” “Oh, she is so popular or so good or both, she’ll be bored dancing with me.” “She has not been dancing much (or has been dancing a lot), maybe she is really picky or popular and will reject me?” It turns out these kinds of thoughts were barriers of my own making. Lady after lady said yes, tall, short, beautiful, young, old, skilled, and less skilled. It was an eye opening exercise I seriously suggest trying (you could flip a coin 3 times, or use a random number table, or there must be an app for that).
Several of my local Tango friends had traveled to attend. Near the end of the weekend, a very popular in our little area, but elderly dancer I know complained none of the younger ladies would dance with him. After the event, my Dear Wife (DW) said the organizer lamented the event was becoming snobby. A week or so later, I bumped into a solid intermediate I know. He said he was turned down many times. He did need some fine tuning on his cabeceo technique, which I helped with, but I suspect it was more that he was not a highly experienced dancer.
I was oblivious there were fellow leader friends of mine, having trouble at an event with more women than men. I’m not sure exactly why I had such a good go, maybe it was the 5 minus epsilon years of experience. I mixed things up and asked all kinds of ladies, and tried to be sure to take care of ladies who seemed to be having a dry spell. I was in the snobs, but not of the snobs.
TTanguero
Forum Master
I think it can be nothing more than having the confidence to cabeceo. I think in 16 months of dancing, I have had my cabeceo declined maybe half a dozen times. And that is, obviously, as a beginner-level dancer.
You are lucky
How big is your tango community. At least one decline every time I go out is routine.
Tango Distance
Well-Known Member
Melting Moment
Work had me travel to a major metropolitan area. Despite being a major population center, and allegedly big on Tango, the practica had 2 women, plus the instructor couple. I think the DF Tango crowd would like how teaching was done. Both ladies said they have taken 2 years of classes, but struggled on ganchos and barridas. The instructor finally said “We don’t teach ganchos here.” Ah, that mystery was resolved, but lady 1 seemed very much the beginner despite saying she had 2 years of classes. She seemed nervous, stiff, and uncertain, to the point she missed a bunch of leads. The Tango Distance (TD) made it simple, but she still seemed stressed. I ratcheted things up and went to close embrace – sometimes that additional information and removal of some motion degrees of freedom helps out a nervous beginner. She seemed like she had been taught close embrace, and seemed comfortable with it, but was still stiff and nervous.
The first song was ending. I knew it well enough to end on the last beat with a fancy ending. I did a twisty thing, she took it over and made it into a sentada. In total contrast to the rest of the song, it was perfectly executed and really neat! What was really interesting is during this fancy ending twisty thing, I could feel the nervousness drain out of her. It was like she had a “melting moment.” The body language was loud and clear, “I trust you to take care of me now.” The next two songs went very well, and she radiated happiness at the end of the tanda.
The female instructor asked me for a tanda. It went well, she was good, and she asked for an encore tanda. She was very complimentary – part of that may have been a lack of experienced leads and part of it is the Distance keeps chipping away at improving.
Tango is a prima donna
It is so hard to get
Lessons so long, still can’t get step one
So I’m dragging my feet, you bet
But even a rock must crumble
If you chip at it night and day
I don’t know where the day has gone
I’m going to chip that stone away
Chip away, chip away at the stone
I won’t stop until the ladies love my Tango’n
Chip away, that’s what I want to do
Sweet little mama, I want to dance Tango with you
Work had me travel to a major metropolitan area. Despite being a major population center, and allegedly big on Tango, the practica had 2 women, plus the instructor couple. I think the DF Tango crowd would like how teaching was done. Both ladies said they have taken 2 years of classes, but struggled on ganchos and barridas. The instructor finally said “We don’t teach ganchos here.” Ah, that mystery was resolved, but lady 1 seemed very much the beginner despite saying she had 2 years of classes. She seemed nervous, stiff, and uncertain, to the point she missed a bunch of leads. The Tango Distance (TD) made it simple, but she still seemed stressed. I ratcheted things up and went to close embrace – sometimes that additional information and removal of some motion degrees of freedom helps out a nervous beginner. She seemed like she had been taught close embrace, and seemed comfortable with it, but was still stiff and nervous.
The first song was ending. I knew it well enough to end on the last beat with a fancy ending. I did a twisty thing, she took it over and made it into a sentada. In total contrast to the rest of the song, it was perfectly executed and really neat! What was really interesting is during this fancy ending twisty thing, I could feel the nervousness drain out of her. It was like she had a “melting moment.” The body language was loud and clear, “I trust you to take care of me now.” The next two songs went very well, and she radiated happiness at the end of the tanda.
The female instructor asked me for a tanda. It went well, she was good, and she asked for an encore tanda. She was very complimentary – part of that may have been a lack of experienced leads and part of it is the Distance keeps chipping away at improving.
Tango is a prima donna
It is so hard to get
Lessons so long, still can’t get step one
So I’m dragging my feet, you bet
But even a rock must crumble
If you chip at it night and day
I don’t know where the day has gone
I’m going to chip that stone away
Chip away, chip away at the stone
I won’t stop until the ladies love my Tango’n
Chip away, that’s what I want to do
Sweet little mama, I want to dance Tango with you
Thanks for posting these. It's nice to read about dancing when we can't be out on the dance floor any more.
London is pretty big, but then you do see many familiar faces across milongas.
You may, of course, be much more ambitious than me in who you cabeceo.
Iam fairly conservative. When I go out on an average I will dance between 4 to 6 tandas spread over 2.5 to 3 hours. My distribution is fairly even. About 1/3rd of each, the strangers/visitors, the people I know and the rest of local community. Which means that there are always some from the last two categories that I didn't dance with on any given night, who would have likely said yes if I had danced more tandas.
TTanguero
Forum Master
I’ve never counted, but I guess I dance roughly every other tanda at a random milonga, through to most of them at my favourite. I probably dance with fewer strangers than you at my usual milongas, though it has been almost 100% strangers at some bigger one-offs (like when Romantica Milonguera came to London) – so that’s the likely explanation.
Tango Distance
Well-Known Member
The Tango Distance
Dances with
a Tango Distance
For those who might be jumping straight to this message: My avatar and my name here, "Tango Distance," comes from my difficulties getting close enough to the ladies to do close embrace Tango. Read this thread for all the details!This lady looked like she stepped right out of the screen for a show on the rich and famous. I could totally picture her having a private dock at Martha's Vineyard, with a huge expensive yacht behind her. She seemed to be a very skilled dancer when I caught glimpses (I was busy and didn't have time to sit and watch).
This milonga was in another state I was visiting. It's relevant to the story: I was having a good go. I did around 6 milongas in 2 weeks. I was getting rave reviews from my dance partners (a future post will ruminate on that).
Now this is different... Madame Richecélèbre is doing a birthday vals. It is deep into the song, and she is only on her 2nd lead. Despite several calls by the organizer, and a good size crowd, no leaders are queued up. I generally avoid doing birthday vals, but this was getting painful. Rich, famous, or not, despite my Tango Distopia I feel bad enough for her I jump in as the 3rd lead. No one relieves me. She seems to be a good dancer, so I'm not sure why the leads were not stepping up.
At another Milonga, I see her. We have a stilted conversation. I tell her I'll cabeceo her later. After a few tandas, I cabeceo, she accepts, and we're off.
Most dances are good, and there are a small number of outliers that aren't so good. Usually I read one feeling, like happy, sad, indifferent, etc.
Madame Richecélèbre was different. She was at war with herself. You could tell she loved Tango steps, and was good at them. On the flip side, she somehow silently screamed she didn't want to be close to me. I tried open and close embrace, but both states were the same. Give the birthday vals, I don't think it was just me. BTW, my theory is she acted differently with all eyes on her for the birthday vals.
I suddenly realized, this was me. I am the Tango Distance, and I danced with my twin Tango Distance. With low-grade horror, I realized this was the dance I gave to many ladies.
As I have said many times, Tango has been good for me. Here are a few thoughts:
- I think men have Tango Distance types of issues more often than women do.
- In retrospect, I am impressed how nice the ladies have been to me all these years. Now that I have experienced the dance I must have given many times, I'm impressed people kept dancing with me!
- I now dance close embrace regularly, smile at strangers, and will even sometimes offer a hug. That is huge progress, and I'm happy with where I am at.
- I don't know that I would say I have been "cured." I was happy and accomplished before, minus those those moments I needed to get past hugs. I still don't seek hugs (except from DW), but I will accept them, and let them go longer than a moment. Instead of a "get out of this hug" feeling that pushed out all other thoughts, I can now mentally step back and realize hugs can give joy and healing to others, and it really doesn't cost me to provide that. This is a good place to be. I'll even just do the hug with friends I know like hugs and not try to worm out of it.
- To answer the obvious question, I kept doing Tango as DW likes it so much, and I realized my hug thing was beyond a dislike and was a problem that needed work.
- I have read this is common with introverts: I'll step into my public speaker persona to give a talk before an audience. I'll step into my dancer persona to dance. As soon as the dance is over, I'll slip back a bit into classic Tango Distance.
- I now realize dance can be healing, and is the only hug interaction some people get in a week. It's a little way I can help make the world a better place.
- I still have some introvert behaviors. For example, I typically do only one dance with a given lady at a Milonga.
itwillhappen
Forum Master
I - as a layman - am not entirely convinced.
Could you distinguish behaviors and emotions that are more innate (and may well have benefits) from behaviors and emotions that are more based on personal trauma in the past (and are more of a former survival strategy)?
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I don't think introversion and comfort with physical closeness are related.
Introversion is just about whether you find contact with groups of other people draining or energizing.
My husband and I are both introverts but I am totally fine with hugs, (cheek) kisses, and CE. He really doesn't want to hug (or dance tango) with anyone but me.
Neither of us have childhood trauma or anything like that. My family origins are Southern European and hugs and kisses are super common and normal. He is from South Asia and has good relationships with his family also but they just don't touch each other much.
Introversion is just about whether you find contact with groups of other people draining or energizing.
My husband and I are both introverts but I am totally fine with hugs, (cheek) kisses, and CE. He really doesn't want to hug (or dance tango) with anyone but me.
Neither of us have childhood trauma or anything like that. My family origins are Southern European and hugs and kisses are super common and normal. He is from South Asia and has good relationships with his family also but they just don't touch each other much.
JournalInTime
Forum Master
This strikes me as being on the mark.
"Introverted" isn't "reserved," and "extroverted" isn't "touchy-feely." You can be a "touchy-feely introvert" (a homebody hermit who's all hugs and kisses with the three people you permit inside your bubble) or a "reserved extrovert" (someone who loves going out to cocktail parties, the opera, the theatre, etc., and who's rarely found at home, but who keeps all contact to a polite handshake). I, too, feel that reserved vs. touchy-feely is largely cultural. My father's family growing up was very proper in that uniquely Canadian way that goes with trying to stay British, so when I came to Québec, its Franco-Latin culture was shocking, what with all the hugging and kissing on cheeks. Now I'm integrated, and huggy-kissy myself, but I'm still taken aback by my Slavic friends who kiss on the mouth . . . one of whom is a very introverted Russian woman. You can reset cultural norms (I did), but introversion/extroversion seems hardwired; its social vs. neurological.
For that matter, "introverted" isn't "shy," and "extroverted" isn't "confident." You can be a "confident introvert" (like a bookish academic who avoids people but knows that they're talented and takes charge of their research group) or a "shy extrovert" (life of the party . . . with people you know). I'm the latter: I live to go out and see people, and suffer if I don't get to do that, but I'm in no hurry to rub shoulders with strangers. You can learn confidence (therapy helped me some with that), but as noted before, introversion/extroversion seems hardwired; it's psychological vs. neurological.
Tango strikes me as a realm with lots of shy, reserved extroverts – people with the wiring to be around others but a psycho-social profile that makes it challenging. They wouldn't pick an activity where they go out and hang around with tens or hundreds of other people in a crowded room night after night if they were truly introverted. That would suck them dry! But lots of them dance only with a small group (shy), and many have personal-space issues, especially outside their group (reserved).
I'm pretty much entirely over any personal-space issues I might have had; I'm going around hugging and kissing just about anybody who hugs or kisses, and I dance exclusively in a close hug. Living in a Franco-Latin region for 32 years helped me a lot with that. But I confess to having a hard time inviting people I don't know. Once I get over the invitation hump, though, I'm just as touchy-feely with strangers as with friends.
ArbeeNYC
Forum Master
Some men.