Off-axis/Shared axis figures

[Bailango]

These have been discussed plenty in posts across different threads. I am referring to figures like volcadas and colgadas. You can add more.

My question is mainly for the leaders. Perhaps followers have their experience what leaders do right and wrong to lead such figures.

My question is how much does the follower know to be able to follow such figures. Yes you may be able to lead a beginner follower who is unknowingly able to follow due to momentum. Or you are really good at leading it. For follower’s part there is are certain movement mechanics and being able to be off-axis. There are always followers who when you try to lead off-axis will react by falling into a step to avoid being off axis. In close embrace it is possible to hold a follower off-axis due to momentum and how you are holding her securely in the embrace. The off-axis figure might be over before she has the chance to register being off-axis and react.

These off-axis figures require follower to recognize the lead and know the technique to make those figure with. No matter how good a lead is, if the follower’s technique is incorrect it is best to abort the off-axis move.

 

[opendoor]

..how much does the follower know to be able to follow such figures…

Colgadas can be led at all experience levels, because, as mentioned in the other thread, you can get the followers used to them by slowly colgadizing the previous steps increasingly.

Spontaneous volcadas do not work with intermediate followers as they always make rescue steps instead of tilting. But beginners shout "hooooooii!" and off it goes.

 

[Numawan]

IMO, these techniques aren't intuitive for followers. Meaning that even a professional tango leader won't be able to lead a follower without any training of vocadas/colgadas into a successful volcada/colgada. I mean here followers with really zero training of these movements.

Volcadas can be learned quite rapidly. The follower just needs to get what the lead feels like and accept that she doesn't need to stop the 'falling over'. Colgadas are more difficult to learn for followers. Because the follower usually has to do something specific with her free leg to make the movement work. Even my relatively experienced partners sometimes forget what they have to do.

 

[Bailango]

Colgadas can be led at all experience levels, because, as mentioned in the other thread, you can get the followers used to them by slowly colgadizing the previous steps increasingly.

True. Half of followers I danced with at milongas will instead step or fall into one.

Spontaneous volcadas do not work with intermediate followers as they always make rescue steps instead of tilting. But beginners shout "hooooooii!" and off it goes.

Bigger colgadas also don’t work with these. By bigger, I don’t mean stage type.

 

[Brummbaer]

IMO, these techniques aren't intuitive for followers. Meaning that even a professional tango leader won't be able to lead a follower without any training of vocadas/colgadas into a successful volcada/colgada. I mean here followers with really zero training of these movements.

Volcadas can be learned quite rapidly. The follower just needs to get what the lead feels like and accept that she doesn't need to stop the 'falling over'. Colgadas are more difficult to learn for followers. Because the follower usually has to do something specific with her free leg to make the movement work. Even my relatively experienced partners sometimes forget what they have to do.

Generally they have to be in the follower's vocabulary. You might get away with something 'fast' (i.e. before they've thought too much, panicked and taken survival steps), but for most of the others they need at least to be 'learning' (that's why they're in the lesson, practica, etc). And the same goes for leaders - you shouldn't just copy a volcada because you've seen some video, let alone a colgada. Not forgetting that they all require lots of practice for both partners - the entry, the correct positioning (especially including feet so that, with open toes, she doesn't turn her foot into the leader's), probably some shared load balancing, the steps, the exit... And, of course, not all followers are so slim and petite. Not forgetting that old problem - the floor/shoe interface (neither want to rip my knee nor to slip and fall). It's a continuous learning process.

 

[Paja]

I had never danced volcadas on milongas, it was for me horrible figure, endangering both dancers and couple of other pairs accidentally too close to pair atempting to dance volcada. Of course it was mistake. Now I use one of my favourite "starter" - stop in parada by right foot after step two. And now by slight change of balance and pivot movement I can release follower left leg and start to play with. From small boleos to wraping around my right leg. Follower enjoy fluent waving with free leg. In right moment I just make step back by right leg. She even cannot think about "rescue step" with left leg, because her leg is in fluent movement forward. Then I continue to lead her left leg to forward cross. And voila, nice, small, basic volcada was born. I can lead to this figure everybody, without warning, without big preparation or previous training on practicas. For us this was good starting point to volcadas and there is lot of details to learn and improve.

 

[Brummbaer]

Follower enjoy fluent waving with free leg. In right moment I just make step back by right leg. She even cannot think about "rescue step" with left leg, because her leg is in fluent movement forward.

That depends on the follower's vocabulary level. Some might expect 'wraps'; others understand the differences. Some leaders try to lead a volcada (or colgada) too extreme, and the follower feels unsafe so deploys a rescue strategy. You've got to appreciate the follower's perception - and their estimation of the leader.

 

[Paja]

Brummbaer, this is nice on this figure. You start from easy and small move to bigger once and finish with volcada. If I try to lead to volcada directly, often am facing troubles if follower predicts figures and it finish as Opendoor described, unexpected off-balance is solved by rescue step.

 

[Brummbaer]

Brummbaer, this is nice on this figure. You start from easy and small move to bigger once and finish with volcada. If I try to lead to volcada directly, often am facing troubles if follower predicts figures and it finish as Opendoor described, unexpected off-balance is solved by rescue step.

Yes, I know, and I sometimes use that figure option. Nevertheless it still depends on the follower and, if you like, 'how far they're prepared to go'. Some followers, at some level (maybe some classify those as 'beginners', or 'novices' - and couldn't/wouldn't dance with them) aren't even prepared for 'fluid movement of free leg'. If you've got followers who are, that's great. But there are some who go to: WTF was that? I'm simply making the point that there's a spectrum of ability, and experience, in both followers and leaders, so leaders need to consider what they lead with certain followers, and not overestimate their own abilities.