Old Topic - Brought Back Up . . .

[Vince A]

I've read here that that live bands that can and do play swing songs mostly appeal to Lindy Hoppers. Yet, the WCS dancers, including me, responded saying that they cannot dance to live swing music. Oh maybe we can, but it's not the same???

The reason I ask this, is because I have a "blues band," and we play many songs with a beat in WCS tempo. I've instructed our drummer to emphasize the downbeat, esp if there are dancers on the floor. Many times that we play, it's intended to be for listening, not dancing. But once I was on a break, and I grabbed my wife and we did a WCS to Mustang Sally - hitting each and every break. Well, dancing caught on, and we picked up new students. I just want to add more danceable songs for the WCS dancers that are learning and for our dance friends that come up to WCS.

But my question is to the WCS dancers . . . what makes live music OK to dance to, and what makes it next to impossible to dance to. For instance . . . I find it next to impossible to WCS to C&W music, yet I've had to compete with that music.

Your thoughts . . .

 

[dTas]

funny... i haven't had a problem dancing WCS to live, recorded or C&W music.

what seems to be the problem?

i started learning WCS in a country bar to a live band.

 

[Vince A]

funny... i haven't had a problem dancing WCS to live, recorded or C&W music.

For me . . it's the 'drive' of the music that's not there, and maybe it's just hard to get funky to a violin. Don't get me wrong, I love C&W music, just not to WDS to . . .

what seems to be the problem?

I don't know . . . maybe it's the boots, maybe it's the distraction of those tight Wrangler jeans!

i started learning WCS in a country bar to a live band.

Me too! But . . . just as the 2 Step is evolving into a very sophisticated dance, maybe WCS is too evolved for me to dance to with C&W music. Oh, there are a few that seem to work . . . Shania Twain's "Feel Like A Woman," is one of those!

I don't think I'm alone with this either. At a recent event, the dance floor was overloaded when a funky-type (R&B, BLues, Hip Hop) music was played, yet when a C&W song was played, one that a WCS could be done to, most people went for a beer, water, bathroom break, etc.

 

[swinginstyle]

On Friday nights, I used to go hear this good R&B cover band. They played quite a wide variety of music, but it was very west coast swing danceable. Typically, I listen for a good beat and tempo. If a song has that, I can dance to it.

 

[Spitfire]

Vince, what is the name of your band and how often do you perform?

 

[Flat Shoes]

As a Lindy Hopper I can dance to a great variety of music. But to get that special Lindy feeling I need real Lindy music. That is, if a band plays Boogie Woogie / Rock'n'Roll muysic, which definielty is swing music and one therefore might think it's perfect, I loose it. It's not the right feeling, too bouncy in a wrong way. I would guess Lindy is not the only dance who need the right kind of music, to get the right kind of feeling.

Lindy is best danced to traditional jazz music. Find a good trad. jazz band is not that easy, as most bands today play mainly for listening, and not for dancing. That means too many too fast songs. Or too many way too long songs. And the tempo mix is seldom as good as a dance DJ will provide.

This was a Lindy viewpoint, but maybe it can be transfered to WCS too. A good dance band will play music that has the right kind of feeling, the right kind of tempo mix, and not too long songs.

 

[huey]

Lindy is best danced to traditional jazz music. Find a good trad. jazz band is not that easy, as most bands today play mainly for listening, and not for dancing. That means too many too fast songs. Or too many way too long songs. And the tempo mix is seldom as good as a dance DJ will provide...

I think I know what you mean. Although there is a lot of great traditional jazz music, I would say only about 1 in every 20 songs is suitable for dancing (if you select Count Basie, it is about 1 in 5). But I don't agree that 'Lindy is best danced to traditional jazz music'. There are some modern numbers that are great to Lindy Hop to, but there aren't many of them and they aren't as well known as, say, 'C Jam Blues' or 'T'ain't What You Do'. I like dancing to both traditional Swing and modern numbers. But I feel there is an opportunity for someone to write modern Swing music.

 

[Vince A]

Yea, that's it . . . traditional band music . . . traditional swing . . . like Glen Miller swing music! Makes me do more "swing-type" dancing, duh!!! It looks more like Lindy, i.e., more swingouts, whips, etc.

Whereas funky music, whick I like the best, makes me get down and . . . get . . . funky???

WCS to C&W . . . . makes me want to kill cockroaches in in the corners . . . you know, with those pointed cowboy boots on! That's how I feel I look when dancing WCS to "Merle Haggard . . . . . . ."

J/K!!!

 

[Vince A]

Vince, what is the name of your band and how often do you perform?

The "No Name Band."

Mostly a blues "jam" band with five members and host of other sit-in guitarists, bassists, several drummers, two harp (harmonica) players, one sax player, many, many singers, and a partridge in a pear . . . you know the rest!

Jam twice a week and take on as many gigs as possible, usually two to four per month. I'm trying to weasle my way into another R&R band that is just getting together, and still waiting for an opening in our church band.

What do you play???

 

[dTas]

i definitely don' t try and do WCS to every country song. there are definitely certain country soungs that are boot scuff'n or cockroach stompn. but i'd say at least 30-40% of country songs are "westcoast-able".

i know what you mean about "the right kind of music" though. its like trying to do a cha-cha to a hustle. yeah it fits but there's no latin influence to make you want to really "latinize".

 

[Vince A]

i know what you mean about "the right kind of music" though. its like trying to do a cha-cha to a hustle. yeah it fits but there's no latin influence to make you want to really "latinize".

Me thinks you hit the nail right on the head!!!!!!!!!!

 

[Doug]

VERY generically, there are two common rhythms - Swing & Duple. Nearly all rock, fusion, funk, CW, techno, house, etc...etc is in duple rhythm - 1 and 2 and 3 and 4 and. Swing rhythm is characterized by "swung eights" - 1 and a 2 and a 3 and a 4. Nearly all post Dixie but pre-fusion jazz (1928-1955?) and most modern jazz (from 1945 on) that is not either fusion or "free jazz" is in a swing rhythm.

It is nearly impossible to dance Lindy, and not easy to dance Balboa, to duple rhythm and still feel like you are dancing Lindy/Balboa. This is in part due to the fact that the triple steps in Lindy and Bal are swing steps - that is, the triple is not a cha cha triple which is duple rhythm, and in fact the whole feel of the dance is a swing rhythmic feel. On the other hand, one can dance Lindy/Balboa to essentially ANY swinging jazz, including bebop. And between the two dances tempos can range from 70-300 BPM.

So one advantage that Betzi & I have as Lindy/Balboa dancers is that we can go nearly anywhere that there is live jazz and have a great time dancing. For example, we dance nearly every tune at the Rio Grande Jazz Society's monthly jam session. One doesn't need "Lindy music", just great jazz.

 

[Flat Shoes]

I agree that there are great Lindy dance numbers that are not trad. jazz. But as a genre, trad. jazz I think trad.jazz is the best.

If for example you look at the neo swing genre, you'll find som really great numbers there, but the genre as a whole is not what I would reccomd, or prefer, when dancing Lindy.

I think there is more than 1 in 20/1 in 5 that are danceable. But as I said, bands play for listening, not dancing. And as such the arrangements are often not suitable for dancing.

 

[Vince A]

Thanks Doug for that explanation . . . I had forgotten about the term duple . . .

When I do count, mainly in competition, I always coung in "swung eights" - 1 and a 2 and a 3 and a 4 - ala Skippy Blair classes! It works in funk as well as modern jazz swing - for me. Maybe that's becasue I learned that way to count a an early time in my dance experience? Maybe, but it works for me. Maybe I need to re-think my counting, then I can can WCS to C&W music???

 

[Doug]

If for example you look at the neo swing genre, you'll find som really great numbers there, but the genre as a whole is not what I would reccomd, or prefer, when dancing Lindy.

A lot of the neoswing was in duple rhythm - rock'n'roll with horns. It doesn't swing so indeed, as a genre, I too would not recommend it.

I think there is more than 1 in 20/1 in 5 that are danceable. But as I said, bands play for listening, not dancing. And as such the arrangements are often not suitable for dancing.

I'm not sure that I agree with your comment re suitability for dancing. A lot of people might argue that bebop is not good dance music. But I love dancing to Charlie Parker's "Star Eyes". I also like to dance to "Scrapple From the Apple", although I prefer Sonny Stitt's version off the Stitt Plays Bird CD. Sonny Rollins' version of "St. Thomas" and Thelonious Monk's version of "Straight No Chaser" are also great dance tunes.

But you will NEVER get most Lindy dancers to agree with me. I think the limitation is in the eyes of the dancer and not in the music nor in the dance itself. Basically, people are very conservative. You dance swing to "swing" music. Not to wierd bebop no matter how solid the rhythm nor how swinging the tune.