On the Development of a Rumba Dancer

[discovery]

On the Development of a Rumba Dancer.

This post has been brewing in my head for a while and I only hope I can phrase it in such a way to generate some interesting discussion. It's something that I'm really curious about so I hope it inspires people to reply. So here goes...

My question is one of pedagogy and so I'm especially hoping to get the replies of teachers although I welcome anyone who has an opinion on the matter. I know people can vary tremendously in the ability they bring when learning to dance, but I'd like to talk about the general case, if you'll grant me, for the purposes of this topic, the existence of something which may not exist. I am interested in this topic for all dances but I am choosing rumba simply to focus the discussion. Also I feel rumba is a foundational dance, and so well-suited to this discussion.

My question is this: When taking someone from having no rumba experience to being a high level quality rumba dancer (and I am speaking competitive quality dancing here) what are the steps involved from a teaching standpoint? Do you use a systematic way of creating such a dancer (or, if you're a student, have you gone through a systematic method)? If so, can you outline the process? Do you basically use the same sequence for all people?

I suppose it would also be useful to outline the qualities of a good rumba dancer. Some of the topics that come to mind are:

• Posture: Alignment of blocks of weight, High center & Low center,
  Alignment of head, Position of weight over feet
• Balance:
• Actions: Leg Action, Foot Action & Footwork, Hip and Body Action
• Connections: Physical to partner, Visual, to an Audience
• Armstyling:
• Musicality: Timing, Body Rhythm, Musical Interpretation
• Spins: Spotting, All the varieties of turns

(I'm so fascinated by the people who teach the young competitive dancers because they consistently churn out such amazing dancers. What is their process?) I am interested in responses at all levels of detail, from broad outlines to finer nuances.

 

[cl5814]

This could generate interesting discussion. The topic fascinates me too.

For a start, i think you would need to explain almost everything you say; yet not say too much detail because you will overwhelm the student, especially young ones.
If we take the example and apply it to anything in life, learning how to sing or paint or whatever; i think you will apply the same principles.
The experience has to be fun for the student, yet after each lesson they need to feel that they have learned, say at least 3 things they didn't know / realize.
Your teaching method would be tied to the student's goal to determine the level of technical detail you are going to "force" on the student.
Will you just be teaching concepts or actually series of concepts string together so that the student can use this string of concepts (for instance a short routine) after they stop lessons or that they might be able to practice after lesson. Which brings me to another point - if the student practices between lessons - it will bring both of you satisfaction; yet if the student can't or don't want to practice between lessons, are you going to practice with the student or just carry on with the next concept ?

my 2c...

 

[Josh]

My question is this: When taking someone from having no rumba experience to being a high level quality rumba dancer (and I am speaking competitive quality dancing here) what are the steps involved from a teaching standpoint? Do you use a systematic way of creating such a dancer (or, if you're a student, have you gone through a systematic method)? If so, can you outline the process? Do you basically use the same sequence for all people?

I was taught several dances at once, which I think is actually helpful to keep monotony from setting in. I think a big mistake in teaching someone any dance would be to be too systematic in the approach. Each student is different--some respond well to more pointed/direct correction, others do not. Some learn quickly, others take more time. So flexibility is absolutely necessary as a teacher. Also, don't rush things--I certainly wouldn't teach a new student something like hip action until after a good many private lessons (we're talking about a non-dancer right?).

That said, here would be the order I would introduce the list you gave: (note I say introduce, not teach, as no one learns it the first time!)

1) One thing I introduce early is posture. It's immediately noticeable, and while some have a tougher time than others (I had a VERY hard time!), it's an immediate fix that can be practiced rather easily when the student is on his/her own.
2) Connection is vital for even basic movements, so this would come next in my book. Specifically, partner and floor connection (not audience yet).
3) Musicality can be used once basic movements and connection have been established. Just doing basics with feeling and interpretation can look better than doing every step in the book without it. Timing is a must here.
4) Introducing styling next allows the student to begin expressing him/herself more fully with the music he/she has been dancing to.
5) Balance seems a good next step. Before she/he can start doing spins or really getting into actions, balance is necessary.
6/7) Depending on the student, it's a tossup between hip/body action and spins/turns. Some will get one better than the other. Spins seem to take a long time to get smooth, so I would say spins first probably, but it depends.

Thoughts?

 

[latingal]

I think a big mistake in teaching someone any dance would be to be too systematic in the approach. Each student is different--some respond well to more pointed/direct correction, others do not. Some learn quickly, others take more time. So flexibility is absolutely necessary as a teacher.

Just a subtle point here....it would seem to me that there is a difference between having a systematic approach (the mechanics that are taught and in what order) vs. how the information is taught.

I totally agree with Josh that each student is different and will respond differently to the way a teacher teaches something - which is very important to understand and control. But I think that can be separated from what is actually taught (if the goal is building good fundamentals as a stepping stone to becoming a good dancer).

 

[alemana]

it's odd to me to think about it in terms of "what makes a great rumba dancer."

i mean, (checks that we're in the ballroom forum.. ok we are) people *become* latin dancers. they dance all five latin dances, if they are competitive, and even if they're social dancers they probably dance most of the five.

to be sure, some latinists are better at the rumba than at the other four, but that's because their attributes as a dancer are a good match for the demands/character of rumba.

i don't know anybody who sets out to become a great rumba dancer. they are latin dancers, who specialize in ballroom latin movement. if they have certain of the latin elements down pat, they might be especially good at rumba. or not.

so.. why is the development of a rumbero/a per se your topic?

 

[latingal]

so.. why is the development of a rumbero/a per se your topic?

Alemana....think discovery mentioned in his original post he's just using rumba to "focus" the discussion....

 

[madmaximus]

Mastery is the refinement of details--and the ability to produce them.

A block of marble, when presented to a sculptor, will first be cut into "rough" outline, and over successive passes eventually refined into a fine statue.
Mastery of dance is not far removed from this process.

It involves refinement of details three areas:
--Physical Ability
--Technique (both ability and knowledge)
--Mental mechanics.

For every successive level we need conquer, our physical ability must rise up to the challenge of ever-evolving and ever more difficult technical aspects imposed by that level we desire to reach.

Needless to say, that during this process:
We need to get stronger;
We need to be able to produce more REFINED technique;
AND, our mental outlook, disciplline, and focus must ally itself accordingly to meet the stresses of the levels we hope to gain.

So, it is just as crucial to have a coach/mentor who could watch over our development.
Someone who could introduce the "rough" dimensions of what we need to be, and help us--over time-- to refine those dimensions into future virtuosity.

Sadly, a common issue is studying under a string of coaches with no specific one to guide us through our development.
Advantageous as it may be to learn from the experience of many, mastery is about knowing who we are first.
If our coaches have no measure of who we were, how could they help make us into what we want to be?

m

 

[discovery]

Alemana....think discovery mentioned in his original post he's just using rumba to "focus" the discussion....

Exactly. The fact that I chose rumba is largely unimportant, so I hope that doesn't create confusion. I don't expect that anyone learns only the rumba or learns it in isolation from the other dances. I could have just as easily named this thread "On the Development of a Latin Dancer" and maybe I should have. I only chose the title that I did because, though I am interested in all kinds of discussion about this topic, the thing that would make my day is to hear a process of creating a dancer in a concrete way. That is, instead of the conversation being very general, having it be specific. Kind of like what Josh was posting (thanks by the way) but even more concrete than that.

As I see it there are lot of different teachers in the world who produce dancers whose ability varies widely; some consistenly produce excellent dancers. What is their process?

 

[dancesportgirl21]

I thin the best teachers are more than just teachers. They know each student individually, knowing their weaknesses and strengths. They know how to push them to be their best and how to present information in a way which it will make sense to the student and will help them learn the fastest. They know when to push the student and when to ease off. Combine this with all of the factors previously mentioned and things should go fine.

 

[discovery]

What about the use of routines in teaching dance as compared to lead/follow syllabus work? Even if it is just a routine composed of straight syllabus figures. My impression is that routines may be an intregral part of the process of creating quality dancers. They become the whetstone on which a student hones his or her technique. Do you feel routines are a necessary part of the process (I know eventually it is a given that they will be--but I am talking in the beginning stages)? Or is syllabus work alone combined with technique enough to create great dancers at least up to a certain level?

Also what about having a fixed warm up? Sort of like a routine but done solo and made up more of basic elements such as walks, spot turns, spiral turns, cucarachas, etc.

On another tangent, anyone know what they do in Eastern European countries to create such technically proficient dancers?

 

[latingal]

My impression is that routines may be an intregral part of the process of creating quality dancers. They become the whetstone on which a student hones his or her technique.[...] Also what about having a fixed warm up? Sort of like a routine but done solo and made up more of basic elements such as walks, spot turns, spiral turns, cucarachas, etc.

In my experiences learning latin, warm up and practice syllabus routines were very integral in the learning process. The practice routines allow the student to work strongly on incorporating basic technique into syllabus steps without having to concentrate on following a lead. Trying to teach both basic technique and anything but the rudimentry lead/follow concepts at the same time might lead to frustration and mediocre results in both areas.

The routine allows the student to get technique/steps into body memory first, then more advanced lead and follow concepts can be introduced.

 

[waltzgirl]

On another tangent, anyone know what they do in Eastern European countries to create such technically proficient dancers?

Start them as infants.

 

[saludas]

On another tangent, anyone know what they do in Eastern European countries to create such technically proficient dancers?

I think that the parents integrate dance education into their everyday life from an early age; encourage it, and assume that excellence comes only with dedication and work.

Honestly, as an American, I see such a different work ethic (in the US parents seem to always say 'let em grow up as kids' and therefore absolve themselves and the kids from the responsibility of achievement) that I can't imagine how many Americans actually do go further in dance!!

I greatly respect the culture that respects the arts...

FYI: I am a parent...

 

[fenixx]

As a non-Eastern European in the Eastern European school that brought you Eugene, Max C., Val C., Beata, Karina, Roman (to name the most recognizable names) as well as scores of others who rank among the top in every championship latin age-group category, I can definitely say there is a method: hard work. Now that might seem a bit obvious, but I don't think most people understand what I mean by hard work. You see, I started in a studio where excellent dancers came through to take lessons, but there wasn't a culture of work. If you went to an open floor session, the best dancers were usually silvers or golds with a mix of a champ couple here or there. That is not the case in the Brooklyn/Jersey/Staten Island studios. Practice is with the best. Every group lesson is taught by someone who is considered one of the best. All of these dancers who have arrived at greatness work hard and they expect each and every student to do the same.

Secondly, the group class, not the private lesson, is the vehicle by which most information is passed on to students. Most of the kids show up at around 8 y.o. or so and are pushed. 6 hours of groups a week and at least 4 hours of practice. If you are practicing and learning weekly with your direct competition, you are going to want to work that much harder so that you don't lose to the kid next to you. This is done consciously by the studios. If groups classes are not very competitive you will not develop competitive dancers.

This is all possible because of the shear numbers the eastern european studios get. If you have 100 kids from 6 - 18, you have a lot of people in direct competition in class and in competition. No one wants to be left behind in the lower class. Everyone sees the older, championship finalist couple and wants to be just like them so they push themselves to get to that level. This is not to say that every kid gets there. For every top kid, there are 10 who have gone no where.

Beyond numbers and competitive drive, there is a lot to be said about access to top couples and top coaches. All of these eastern euro schools are headed by the best latin dancers in the country. So, not only do these kids have access to them, but their coaches. That means these kids are getting the best instruction available. How is this instruction different from "regular" instruction? Well, these kids aren't babied at all. Coddling is not something you will get from these coaches. They will tell you how it should be done and you have to do it. They work you and will not let you lag on technique, posture, leg/foot/ankle action, etc. Everything is routine based and, at least in the beginning, everyone dances the same routine. Spinning and flexibility are worked on early so that it does not have to be developed later. Those who do not keep up are filtered to more "relaxed" classes and those who keep up are promoted to better group classes.

So, I hope to instill that a magic formula to learn any dance (such as rumba) perfectly (ie: teach rumba walks, then basic, then fan, then partnering, then alemana, then new yorker, then arms, then hip action, then hip twist, etc) does not exist. What does exist is a method to cultivate strong, competitive dancers. If you have the proper ingredients and you can motivate the group a portion of that group will be capable of greatness.

 

[Twilight_Elena]

I think you can never start off the same way with every student. If random student X came to me and asked me to teach him/her the Rumba up to whatever level I can teach, I would be working differently with him/her from the first lesson than I would work with Y or Z. Ultimately, I am trying to teacher certain points, indeed. But I see it as building something on an unpredictable landscape. Some people have very unstable footwork, so you work on that. Others have weak posture or stiff hip motion. You work on what you see and tackle each issue when it comes up.

Twilight Elena