on2 guide for dummies (er...on1 dancers)

[amo_dile_que_no]

I had/have serious problems doing the switch but this I have found out, saying that that the footwork does not change, only the counts (me being very guilty of this), misses the whole point of dancing on2, keep in mind that the footwork is probably 70% of the whole essence that distinguish on1 from on2, the other % being the whole smooth, flowy attitude that is brought to the dance. the quick quick slow motion is in sharp contrast to the quick, quick, pause of on1

Apparently we dance on1 differently than you do, because we were not taught to pause. We dance quick, quick, slowww, and our instructor strongly emphasizes from the very beginning that there is no pause. I've seen the pause in ballroom style and it seems to be true of Cuban style (not an expert). I've seen this pause mentioned often when discussing the merits of on1 vs on2, but never brought it up before. I don't dance on1 with a pause and neither does anyone I know that is a regular dancer. So, I don't see that as a distinction. You still execute the crossbody with the feet stepping in the same places as on1.

 

[africana]

your first issue will go away as you continue to practice-- alot --

I had/have serious problems doing the switch but this I have found out, saying that that the footwork does not change, only the counts (me being very guilty of this), misses the whole point of dancing on2, keep in mind that the footwork is probably 70% of the whole essence that distinguish on1 from on2, the other % being the whole smooth, flowy attitude that is brought to the dance. the quick quick slow motion is in sharp contrast to the quick, quick, pause of on1

for the sake of simplicity I believe is ok to simple change counts and continue with the footwork that was done on1, but the soonest you can get over the feeling of your body wanting to move in the "wrong direction", you should start working in the quick quick slow foot and body motion, learn to find the 2 make sure you are emphasizing the two, and de emphasizing the 1 beat.

as someone said before, take it in layers, the more you learn, and practice the more you will realize how far away you are from achieving the "native on2 movement".

I been training for a year, 6 months on1 and the last 6 months on2, I realize now more that my first day of training how much more I need to learn and practice, to dance at the level I want to be at. Is quite humbling experience when after 6 months into my training I realize I need to clean up my basic, and that my leading is not as precise as it should be, and that to dance with more advance followers I have to go to the basics I learned in the first day

very well said

if all you want is to be able to lead/follow patterns on2, or "translate" patterns, then just do footwork and lead signals with correct timing. In this case the counting helps

later on if you want to learn to dance, on2, that takes much more work...much more sensitivity

 

[KiwiMambo]

It's natural to revert back to On1 when you are learning On2. It takes patience and lots of practice. I'm a very technical person, so after my first On2 lesson, I did not sleep that night because my brain was busy converting all my turn patterns to On2. By the following weeks lesson, I already knew in my brain how to do everything On2 without my instructor showing me. Physically doing it was still hard at first though. After 1 weekly private for 3 months, I was as equally fluent On2. Two years later On2 is all I care to do. If I dance On1 I always accidently break On2 part way through the song.

It's like learning a 2nd language. The more you speak it, the more fluent you will become.

 

[Josh]

The footwork doesn't really change, just the counts. Of course I haven't been dancing very long on2 so I may not know any better. If so someone will surely come along and let us know

Are you talking about ET/NY on2? If so, yes, the footwork does change, which is what makes it difficult for some to switch. It's not just on1 footwork shifted one beat.

Apparently we dance on1 differently than you do, because we were not taught to pause. We dance quick, quick, slowww, and our instructor strongly emphasizes from the very beginning that there is no pause. I've seen the pause in ballroom style and it seems to be true of Cuban style (not an expert). I've seen this pause mentioned often when discussing the merits of on1 vs on2, but never brought it up before. I don't dance on1 with a pause and neither does anyone I know that is a regular dancer. So, I don't see that as a distinction. You still execute the crossbody with the feet stepping in the same places as on1.

The "slowww" is the pause. Your body may not stop moving completely as in a ballroom mambo style, but you do pause. If you don't pause, you're off time. I think you're saying that your body doesn't come to a screeching halt, which I agree with, but if you just move at the same rate the whole time don't you think it looks a bit robotic... when do you have time to style? Am I understanding you correctly?

 

[pielcanela]

I might be wrong but as far as I know on1 style calls for a pause, if you are doing quick quick slow, that is what is call on1 ny style, not the LA on1 style, even if is done with a traveling basic, the body still stops to do the a weight change before hitting the 5 beat, stead of falling into it

even on1 when you do the slow or "pause", take note to where your weight is at that precise moment, do you tap the 1 beat or you put all your body weight on the 1 beat?.

I think is important to realize that on2 is more that footwork sequence, or beat stepping changes, a lot of dancers, can be pick out of a dance floor as on1 dancers who learned on2 ( I include myself in this group still ) , or who did not learned or dance regularly in the New York area. Because they fail to understand the complexity of the dance. if you are in a typical on1 LA salsa club, the dance is peppered with tricks, dips, etc, things that will be meet with disapproving looks in a on2 NY scene.

this emphasis means that while dramatic, exciting moves are what drives on1, is the smoothness, fluidity, softness, and low key mesmerizing movements that becomes the illusive goal of on2 dancers. hence with communities working two very different goals, is the overall objective of the dance that needs to be capture by the dancer, objectives, that encompasses, footwork, body motion, state of mind, musicality, and a definition of what is the ultimate goal.

salsa freak and alex da silva, will always have their jazzy moves, and frankie martinez and shaka brown will always have their ballet/afro air to what they do regardless of the beat they are on.

 

[alemana]

can someone point me to a video that shows *social* LA-style dancing?

 

[amo_dile_que_no]

Are you talking about ET/NY on2? If so, yes, the footwork does change, which is what makes it difficult for some to switch. It's not just on1 footwork shifted one beat.



The "slowww" is the pause. Your body may not stop moving completely as in a ballroom mambo style, but you do pause. If you don't pause, you're off time. I think you're saying that your body doesn't come to a screeching halt, which I agree with, but if you just move at the same rate the whole time don't you think it looks a bit robotic... when do you have time to style? Am I understanding you correctly?

If I turn off the sound on Eddie Torres's or Shaka Brown's DVDs I can learn those moves for on1 because even though you step back with your left 1st on one for ET2, your feet end up in the same positions when you do a crossbody etc. Granted, I obviously will never be able to develop the sensitivity and style to be a proper on2 dancer according to the experts, but hey, I do the best I can.

In regard to the slow actually being a pause, how is that any different from the slow for on2? Are you saying there is no pause is on2. Then how is that smooth and not robotic as you say. I recognize it is very difficult to communicate dance in words, so maybe I could understand just what you meant if we were in the same place and you could demonstrate. I still don't see how smoothness is a characteristic of on2, but not on1 (or other styles for that matter). One thing that ladies I dance with have commented on consistently regardless of dance genre is my smoothness. I would say I'm not nearly as smooth on2, because I'm not comfortable with it yet. But when I get there, I'm sure it will be smooth too.

I've said it before and I'll say it one more time and let it be. Too many people over-intellectualize salsa.

 

[Josh]

I obviously will never be able to develop the sensitivity and style to be a proper on2 dancer according to the experts, but hey, I do the best I can.

In regard to the slow actually being a pause, how is that any different from the slow for on2? Are you saying there is no pause is on2. Then how is that smooth and not robotic as you say. I recognize it is very difficult to communicate dance in words, so maybe I could understand just what you meant if we were in the same place and you could demonstrate. I still don't see how smoothness is a characteristic of on2, but not on1 (or other styles for that matter). One thing that ladies I dance with have commented on consistently regardless of dance genre is my smoothness. I would say I'm not nearly as smooth on2, because I'm not comfortable with it yet. But when I get there, I'm sure it will be smooth too.

I've said it before and I'll say it one more time and let it be. Too many people over-intellectualize salsa.

Never say never! :wink:

All I'm saying with respect to the pause, is that it's there, for either style. Not necessarily for every 8-count you do, just that it's a characteristic of salsa and mambo. Wasn't saying that that was a differentiating factor between the two. Just saying that there is a pause, even if your body never comes to a complete stop.

 

[amo_dile_que_no]

Never say never! :wink:

All I'm saying with respect to the pause, is that it's there, for either style. Not necessarily for every 8-count you do, just that it's a characteristic of salsa and mambo. Wasn't saying that that was a differentiating factor between the two. Just saying that there is a pause, even if your body never comes to a complete stop.

Right got ya on the pause, Josh. Just a misunderstanding due to semantics. I may have been exercising a little sarcasm when I said never on the more esoteric aspects of dancing salsa. If you let yourself go the music will take you to some interesting places. One thing I always say (although not very profound) is that thinking and dancing don't go together. It's all about feeling the music as many have said.

One of the things I like about dancing salsa is that you can do it with abandon. I both love and hate it when I come off the dance floor after doing some things that just came out of nowhere inspired by the music. The part I hate is I usually have no idea how to replicate it again. Which is probably why it's such a rush in the first place. Oh the irony!