Open position in closed silver smooth

[JANATHOME]

At a recent event a judge told a pro that in pro-am that he could not begin the dance in a side by side position in the silver category. I have a routine that beings in a open position which dances into a side by side shadow and pro is trying to hunt down if this too is not allowable at this level.

Anyone know?

 

[mindputtee]

Partners must start in a closed or open facing hold. No entrances are allowed in Closed American or International Style. For example, starting the Gold International Style Cha Cha with an allowed side by side amalgamation would constitute an "entrance". A single curtsey facing partner in Viennese Waltz is allowed.

http://www.ndca.org/rules-and-results/ndca-rule-book/

By open do you mean apart and facing each other? That seems to be allowed.

 

[TwoRightFeet]

At a recent event a judge told a pro that in pro-am that he could not begin the dance in a side by side position in the silver category. I have a routine that beings in a open position which dances into a side by side shadow and pro is trying to hunt down if this too is not allowable at this level.

Anyone know?

I was watching a comp on Livestream the other day; I think it was the Millenium. The MC got on the mic and openly chastised the Closed Silver competitors for not following the rules. In particular, he said that the invigilator had complained of couples that were starting in side-by-side position. That's not allowed. You have to start in closed or open-facing position.

I'm not a judge, but I would think that if you started in OFP and subsequently danced into shadow then that would be okay as far as that particular rule is concerned.

Your best bet would be to read the rules yourself. It surprises me how many pros aren't familiar with the rules they're supposed to be abiding by.

 

[DanceMentor]

I would very much welcome there being more clarity and not too many options in the syllabus divisions. I've been doing this a long time and there are many step possibilities to the point I'm not sure they can be clearly covered in a book or step list, to the point I'm often not sure what is allowed. I know there are people who are more specialized in American that I am but I spent many years with American and will all the Syllabi floating around, it was just confusing. Let there be more options once you graduate bast syllabus, but more clarity where everyone at every studio can play by the same steps in the syllabus.

 

[JANATHOME]

No we are not facing each other. I am in front of him at an angle.
He comes from behind me, places hand on my shoulder and then we dance shadow to a small quick spiral that puts us in PP to take a grapevine down line of dance. From there I am sure we are fine in syllabus.

This seems to be the issue. If we are apart and facing each other, OK, while this position as I have described is not OK...

The reason we changed it was because our facing each other opening in VW and foxtrot was just too similar. All I could think about in the heat of comp was don't do a grape in the VW waltz! It would send me into immediate panic and often would end up in a crash and burn!

Thanks all for the info....

 

[ChaCha1]

My pro was called on one of my closed silver routines, we didn't start either facing or in closed and he was told that we couldn't do an opening. (Although it wasn't the original intention) It was just changed to start facing and holding one hand, and then moving into the rest of the routine as it was originally choreographed. We also got called for something similar to a develope in Bolero. That one was not clear at all.

 

[dlliba10]

as per the latest NDCA meeting, the invigilation committee presented a revised list of approved steps, elements, and restrictions for American Style, bronze through silver. Bronze revisions go into effect immediately and silver will go into effect in January. The revisions will be available on the NDCA website.

Anything in the works for Gold?

 

[dbk]

If I recall correctly (this is completely off the top of my head) its not "starting apart" that is questionable in silver... it's "starting with an into". In other words, you can't start dancing while you're still apart. But I have no citations to back that up right now

 

[TwoRightFeet]

If I recall correctly (this is completely off the top of my head) its not "starting apart" that is questionable in silver... it's "starting with an into". In other words, you can't start dancing while you're still apart. But I have no citations to back that up right now

From http://www.ndca.org/rules-and-results/ndca-rule-book/

APPENDIX 1 NDCA APPROVED FIGURES, ELEMENTS & RESTRICTIONS Revised July 2012

The following is a list of the allowable figures, elements and or restrictions for the Bronze and Silver levels to be used in NDCA recognized Events.

Restrictions

...
6. Partners must start in a closed or open facing hold. No entrances are allowed in Closed American or International Style. For example, starting the Gold International Style Cha Cha with an allowed side by side amalgamation would constitute an "entrance". A single curtsey facing partner in Viennese Waltz is allowed.
...

 

[JANATHOME]

Thanks for the post Two Right Feet.
The rules are clear and straight forward.

 

[cornutt]

"A single curtsey facing partner in Viennese Waltz is allowed."

Interesting... so the very common (at least around here) VW opening where the partners start side by side, the lead turns the follow to facing, and they bow and curtsey to each other, is actually not allowed per NDCA rules?

 

[cornutt]

BTW, Larinda, happy to hear you're at Vol State, and I wish we were there. Our original plan this year was to do Vol State, but my DW's foot surgery made that impossible.

 

[TwoRightFeet]

"A single curtsey facing partner in Viennese Waltz is allowed."

Interesting... so the very common (at least around here) VW opening where the partners start side by side, the lead turns the follow to facing, and they bow and curtsey to each other, is actually not allowed per NDCA rules?

I suppose that would depend on what the definition of "is" "start" is. One could argue that, in the case you mention, the curtsey constitutes the "start" of the dance, just like when you take the floor initially and put your partner in front of you a few feet away without touching before extending your hand and bringing them into closed or open-facing position as the music begins. In that case you haven't really "started" the dance until you've assumed the starting position. Obviously, you wouldn't likely get away with it if you're doing a bunch of other dance "steps" in Waltz or Foxtrot, for example, to get established in your starting position.

I'd be curious to hear what the invigilators have to say about that.

 

[fascination]

no develope in silver ? wow

 

[TwoRightFeet]

There is a rule about that for Bronze level. I see no such rule for Silver. There are Silver syllabus figures that include developes, e.g. the Check and Develope in the DVIDA American Silver Waltz.

Bolero - Bronze Level
...
Restrictions
...
5. Both feet must remain close to the floor at all times. (No aerial rondes, developes, etc.).

I know someone who was spoken to by an invigilator for an aerial ronde in Closed Silver Tango. He thought it looked too much like a Gold figure, although the only restrictions on aerial rondes we could find in the rules pertained to the Bronze level.