owning your own dancing

fascination

fascination

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this may be b/c I am a pro/ammer...but let's not go there....but I had an observation abut my progress of late that I guess I wanted to toss out there...more and more my results mean less b/c I can clearly and concretely delineate the ways in which I have improved and I can honestly say that I can comprehend what it is I need to do to execute a step and I am responsbile for practicing that until I can see that it is better...

not long ago, I complimented a friend on what I saw was some improvement in her dancing and she said "really?"...she wasn't at all certain that it was better nor could she have told me what it was that I was thinking was better....I think this is mainly b/c her time to practice is limited so most progress is quite gradual and a result of her lessons ....I was struck by the fact that her progress would be less spotty and at a steeper trajectory if she actually knew why it was better and what was better and how to do it again...and I remember when I was in that space...I only had a vague notion that I had improved somewhat and could only vaguely tell someone why...but I could almost never be as specifc about how as I am now...and I think the difference is degree of information that I am getting and the increased amount of time by neccessity that I have to work on it alone...and I know of one other very successful pro-ammer who has gotten there in precisely the same way....


do you think there is merit to that notion and that it is a big part of what separates good from very good?
 
well, I think if you have the ability to look at your dancing and see what is lacking and either work on it or ask your pro what it is you need to be doing to fix it, it certainly will get you better faster. I think as you progress in your training, you will start to develop this ability - it is hard for a bronze student to really look at their dancing and come to conclusions beyond "something doesn't look right there" - although some *may* have the ability...I certainly didn't. I think if you can also take things that are right in your dancing and apply them to other areas, you will get better quicker. Obviously taking the time to practice is going to speed up the process, too.


I'm rambling here...but I think essentially the further along you go, and the more knowledge you gain in your dance education, the quicker you can improve. For me, it has also helped to work with different teachers and coaches, some of whom pick up on different things than my pro does (not saying he misses them; he just has different priorities).
 
I agree entirely fasc - more so, I think in time as you learn what works for you you contribute more and more and eventually start to take charge of our own training. I think that in pro/am this can reach a point (depending perhaps on the accomplishment of your pro) where you cease to have a real student/teacher relationship and more of a 'paid partnership'. I've felt this transition - though I am definitely not there yet.

Nice observation by the way....
 
Another thought to toss out there... Not everyone has good, or even decent, body awareness. I agree that there's a lot of merit to what you've said, but your friend's comment resonated with me...because that's me to a T. I would have figured that some degree of body awareness would have developed in the last 4 years that I've been dancing, but...not so much. Practice (not as much as you, F, but still), lessons, dancing...nothing has really improved it. I can tell that something felt good or off, but can't tell why. I cannot feel improvement, unless if you look at things from a hugely wide angle (as in, I struggle less to do some things than I did two years ago). Rarely can I detect anything in more detail.
 
re; MQ ...lol...well...I am not sure level has had much to do with it for me...b/c getting "demoted" back to bronze after having danced silver for a year, was probably the best thing that ever happened to me in terms of really understanding how to dance at any level...and even changing pros, both were adamant that bronze was the most important level....(while I was sitting there going; "yea yea just show me how to be really good at it so I can move up")...but in truth I am very grateful for it b/c I think what I learned from spending what seemed like an eternity in bronze.... 3 whole years, lol...was that I would rather do bronze exceedingly well than do open haphazardly without the solid grounding of the work I did in bronze...this friend and I competed against each other in bronze so I think it is more, IMV, about approach and amount of time practicing as well as specificity of practice than what level one dances, which, I have come to see, can mean absolutely nothing at all about skill...but I get your bottom line which is that it takes time... but I guess my point is that it takes way more time if you don't own it yourself and/or you have insufficient information even if what you have is good my most standards...off to the gym...but thanks for weighing in
 
point taken...although you aren't what I'd call a typical bronze dancer, but yes, level is less important than perhaps the amount of time you have spent training. And yes, I agree, the more responsibility one takes for their own training, the quicker they'll improve...really, like anything else ;)
 
Peaches said:
Another thought to toss out there... Not everyone has good, or even decent, body awareness. I agree that there's a lot of merit to what you've said, but your friend's comment resonated with me...because that's me to a T. I would have figured that some degree of body awareness would have developed in the last 4 years that I've been dancing, but...not so much. Practice (not as much as you, F, but still), lessons, dancing...nothing has really improved it. I can tell that something felt good or off, but can't tell why. I cannot feel improvement, unless if you look at things from a hugely wide angle (as in, I struggle less to do some things than I did two years ago). Rarely can I detect anything in more detail.
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I can see how body awareness is key ...but I don't think that was my friend's issue....her practices tend to be unfocused, brief, and half-hearted...by her own admission...but also b/c she doesn't have as many specifics to work on as she might...whether or not she would use them if she had them is unknown due to how busy she is...but I can certainly see how a lack of body awareness is a factor...anyone who has ever seen their own dvd of their dancing is dis-abused of thinking they have that skill mastered;)...but know when I get complimented, I know whethr or not I have earned it...and now when I mark I am not as dependent upon that for evidence of progress as I once was...even though I am, in fact, marking better...I can't always rest on that as a measurement
 
Peaches said:
Another thought to toss out there... Not everyone has good, or even decent, body awareness. I agree that there's a lot of merit to what you've said, but your friend's comment resonated with me...because that's me to a T. I would have figured that some degree of body awareness would have developed in the last 4 years that I've been dancing, but...not so much. Practice (not as much as you, F, but still), lessons, dancing...nothing has really improved it. I can tell that something felt good or off, but can't tell why. I cannot feel improvement, unless if you look at things from a hugely wide angle (as in, I struggle less to do some things than I did two years ago). Rarely can I detect anything in more detail.
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I totally agree with this. I really wish I possessed a better body awareness and this is something I am really trying to focus on now (better late than never?). But it does amaze me at how some people are really adept at figuring out easily what muscle is producing what movement, etc.
 
mamboqueen said:
point taken...although you aren't what I'd call a typical bronze dancer, but yes, level is less important than perhaps the amount of time you have spent training. And yes, I agree, the more responsibility one takes for their own training, the quicker they'll improve...really, like anything else ;)
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mercifully, I have been promoted;)
 
I don't think you should use the word 'demoted' its wrong and sounds like bronze is somehow easier than silver. I think we have read umpteen times here that it is the other way round - from the pro's down. In truth, we should all be 'demoted' to bronze preriodically to resetablish and improve our key elements of dancing. Actually, come to think of it I surely am over and over - an error immediately transforms an open lesson to a pre-bronze one (or several) when an error is detected. What you did was to formally stop training in step diversity to focus again on the fundamentals - power to you, I'm not sure I would have the courage any more.

Please not 'demoted' - the sequence of bronze-silver-gold-open certainly sounds like that but surely no one here believes it. Indeed, one could make a strong argument (and we have elsewhere) for a gold-silver-bronze sequence - open seems to me to be a different ballgame entirely.
 
elisedance said:
I don't think you should use the word 'demoted' its wrong and sounds like bronze is somehow easier than silver. I think we have read umpteen times here that it is the other way round - from the pro's down. In truth, we should all be 'demoted' to bronze preriodically to resetablish and improve our key elements of dancing. Actually, come to think of it I surely am over and over - an error immediately transforms an open lesson to a pre-bronze one (or several) when an error is detected. What you did was to formally stop training in step diversity to focus again on the fundamentals - power to you, I'm not sure I would have the courage any more.

Please not 'demoted' - the sequence of bronze-silver-gold-open certainly sounds like that but surely no one here believes it. Indeed, one could make a strong argument (and we have elsewhere) for a gold-silver-bronze sequence - open seems to me to be a different ballgame entirely.
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lol...there is a reason that demoted is in quotes and a reason I noted that I believe, as do both FP and NP, that it is the most important level...and a reason that I have endured 2 years of sand-bagger accusations......
 
well, at least now you can emerge from the bunker - from what I saw at OSB the next levels are going to go quickly and then I had better watch my back ;)
 
Interesting observation, Fasc. I, like Peaches, know when something is wrong or right, but don't know exactly what I've done to produce the results. Admittedly, I've only been doing this 2 years, dancing Standard for 1, and as my pro so often tells me, my first year was mostly talking books with him and crying.

However, "owning" your lessons is perhaps not how I'd put it. I would like to be able, at some point, to know exactly what I did or did not do to improve my dancing, rather than trying to assimilate what my pro is trying to say. He and I can be technical and he often tells me to stop over-analyzing and thinking and just dance. Being more aware of what I am doing....not thinking or analyzing.....but just knowing, I think is the key.

Perhaps I am on the right path, perhaps not. But, your realization is where I'd like to be someday. Thanks for the insight!
 
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