Pro/Am Scholarships - The Pro's Role

[TinyDancer109]

First, I dont mean to sound pompous or put any pros down. Just been pondering on this and wondering what other people think. It's interesting.

Judges say that they judge the COUPLE as opposed to the student during a scholarship, correct? Well, sometimes i have seen pro/am couples where the am appears to dance better than the pro... and i dont mean "oh the am is so good you cant tell which one is the pro"... i mean, "wow, that am is amazing but her pro doesnt seem into it/very good".

For example, I know of one girl in my own division who is a great open dancer, but her teacher seems to barely move or move well. whether it's because he's better at teaching theory, feels he doesnt have to try, aches too much, growing old, etc. - i dont know. But IMV, this girl should be called back more often/scored better than she does. I can't help but wonder if the reason is because the partnership looks unbalanced due to her pro's very noticeable lack of dancing, since they are being judged as a couple.

so what do you all think? have you ever seen this and wondered about it?

 

[Josh]

I can't help but wonder if the reason is because the partnership looks unbalanced due to her pro's very noticeable lack of dancing, since they are being judged as a couple.

Yes I agree with you -- and let's be honest, judging an individual anyway in a couple's sport is difficult anyway, scholarship or not. Dancing is about a team, two people dancing together, and whether one is classified differently than the other doesn't really change much. Judges may be instructed to judge an individual, and may do this, but both members of the partnership, regardless of classification, are still dancing together.

 

[neakor]

My AM partner is in this unfortunate situation. Her instructor is relatively new and is at a much lower level than what she and I normally dance at AM comps. She's complained that he sometimes throws her off balance or doesn't lead properly causing her to look awkward. I know for sure that she could score much better if she were dancing with a more capable pro.

 

[fascination]

I would say that if you find yourself at a comp being asked if you are the pro and you aren't...you need to seriously re-evaluate why you are dancing with the person you are are dancing with BTDT....it does matter...

 

[Standarddancer]

Yes I agree with you -- and let's be honest, judging an individual anyway in a couple's sport is difficult anyway, scholarship or not. Dancing is about a team, two people dancing together, and whether one is classified differently than the other doesn't really change much. Judges may be instructed to judge an individual, and may do this, but both members of the partnership, regardless of classification, are still dancing together.

This is so well-said!!!

 

[Standarddancer]

I've seen situations like that, saw a couple which the lady dances very strong, looking stunning on the floor, she stands out more than her pro. It turned out she's dancing with her S/O who is a local studio dance teacher. I mean he's not bad compared to her, but she's talented, just she does other kind of job and does not want a pro status. I could only imagine the reason she dances with him is convenience, she doesn't need to pay a high pro fee for pro-am comps, so they could save money to do more comps or pay someone coaches who are higher level to coach both of them. Actually they look equally good most of time, I actually enjoy looking at couples like that, like to see lady dancing musically and active, maintain beautiful shape yet flexible. Don't like to see ladies being pulled around by their pros, don't know what they are doing.

 

[debmc]

Interesting thread, TD. The open gold ladies A rhythm and latin dancers are so amazing, I notice some of them do seem to be an equal match to their pros. I think some of these women are about to turn pro themselves. As far as judging the individual vs judging the couple I would think that would depend on the dance style. Some dances lend themselves more to noticing what the couple is doing vs the individual student.

 

[fascination]

I think at the open level, one can consider that an accomplishment to the credit of both the pro and the student...but when it is that way in silver or bronze, it is a problem

 

[TinyDancer109]

I would say that if you find yourself at a comp being asked if you are the pro and you aren't...you need to seriously re-evaluate why you are dancing with the person you are are dancing with BTDT....it does matter...

i agree!! which is why when i saw this young lady in my division in this situation (and from where i am sitting being penalized for it)... i have to wonder how one allows oneself to get pulled into that position in the first place.

For me, my former pro was a far greater and more knowledgeable dancer than I, but I STILL felt that I had outgrown him. Although he knew more and could dance much better, i felt his ability to teach me had diminished as the knowledge gap diminished... like he did not know what to fix next anymore... which is why I moved on to NP.

So how do talented dancers with pros that are VISIBLY less capable NOT feel the same... glass ceiling, i suppose... that i felt? it is strange to me.

 

[TinyDancer109]

how are you being penalized?

sorry, i meant from where i am sitting, it looks like SHE is being penalized for it - like i said, i admit that i cant know for sure, i just wonder.

ETA: i have never competed against her.

ETA #2: actually, i forgot, that's not true. I competed against her once. and was shocked when i got called back and she didn't. Like I said, she is very very good. so i cant help but wonder if it's her pro.

 

[fascination]

there are so many factors tiny..sometimes it isn't that her pro is a poor dancer but also that he has no clout...no pull with anyone...or that he has burned some bridges...who knows....there are lots and lots of factors that go into the serendipity of marks....bottom line is; if she has a brain in her head she either sees what is going on, understands it and is okay with it because she has other priorities, or she attributes it to something else and may be right or wrong about it, or she has blinders on for any variety of reasons...or there is something missing that you don't see

 

[Piggles]

Yes, it's an unfortunate position - I've been there myself (though after that comp I found another teacher). In my case, I had just switched from American to International style and was pretty much starting over again. I live in a small city with few studios and picked him as a short-term teacher. Once I saw what he was like in competition, I decided it was time for shop for another teacher.

I think the onus is really on the student to recognize their abilities and potential, and determine if their teacher meets their needs (also factoring in teaching/learning style, affordability, etc). I think at heart, many of us have difficulty standing up and saying "I deserve/need more than this"...both on and off the dance floor.

 

[TinyDancer109]

very true. it could be any variety of reasons. although my former pro didnt have any clout either so i doubt that was the reason for my being called back over her.

i still do find it fascinating to see such couples as this though.

 

[TinyDancer109]

I think the onus is really on the student to recognize their abilities and potential, and determine if their teacher meets their needs (also factoring in teaching/learning style, affordability, etc). I think at heart, many of us have difficulty standing up and saying "I deserve/need more than this"...both on and off the dance floor.

yes! i think this hits the nail on the head.

 

[fascination]

L---for my part, that is what my last point was about..that there is something that tiny was missing about the dancing that the judges see....


I remember long ago thinking a gal got hosed ...it seemed obvious...(granted, it was a while ago and my eye wasn't as good)...and then my current por noted how back weighted she was....I was looking at a superior topline....sometimes what we see isn't so reliable