Pro-Am Terminology Help

ChaChaMama

ChaChaMama

Well-Known Member
What do "open bronze" and "open silver" mean?

How are they different than "full bronze" and "full silver" if at all?
 
Here is another question along the same lines, should you do all the closed levels first. Then, do the open levels? If you did it that way it would seem that to do open bronze would be dancing down or should you do open bronze/closed bronze at the same time?
Was just wondering everyones thoughts. If you did the close divisions and placed well. Then, moved to the open division, it would seem like you would have a better chance to place well in the open division. I haven't ever really watched the open bronze. But, it seems like they wouldn'y place well in the open scholarships...
 
Generally way I've seen people do it is that they go throught he closed and open divions mostly in order together. IE, you start out just closed bronze, as you start leraning syllabus. Then next you might do open and closeed bronze, which is what I did in second competition, as I wanted to use some steps in the FA dancesport syllabus, which weren't allowed in that particular comp for closed entries. Then same through silver, etc. Seems here at least you'll learn the syllabus steps first, then add in open choreography of same level as you progress. So you would do closed bronze, open/closed bronze, closed silver, open/closeed silver, etc. With of course some variation.
 
In some comps you can do any step you like in an 'open' syllabus heat but, as Larinda says, its typically used as a stepping stone to the next level - or (more often??) so that a pro can dance with two students of the same age group at the same level. You could not do closed gold and open bronze - they are too far apart for any comp so the order (if you need to go through them all) is closed bronze, open bronze, closed intermediate silver, silver, open silver closed intermediate gold etc etc (or something like that).
 
my take is that "open bronze" is "bronze-level technique with some non-bronze figures", so i would anticipate that someone at that level wouldn't be competitive in an open scholarship.

personally, i never did any of the "open" bronze or silver events. just closed syllabus. although after about six months in silver, i was able to be competitive in small open scholarship fields.
 
Yeah, there's definiteily a vast difference between open bronze/open silver and open championship.
 
I have not done any of the "open bronze" or "open silver" categories--to me, it just adds confusion, since by definition "bronze" or "silver" when used in the context of "closed" categories refers ONLY to a list of figures (hence why some people can and choose to compete in closed bronze for 3 years at 40 comps and win everything at that level), and not to a level of proficiency.

So follow this logic and tell me if I'm crazy: Can I use things in "open bronze" that I could also use in "open silver"? If not, then don't the two categories equate to simply larger versions of "closed bronze" and "closed silver"? If so, then why the distinction of "open" bronze/silver to begin with? If the distinction of bronze/silver is based on proficiency level, then why even maintain syllabus restrictions for closed categories? I think that logic checks out! :-)
 
Larinda McRaven said:
No, Bronze and Silver are PROFICIENCY levels, that happen to have syllabus restrictions.
Click to expand...

Well, we've had this discussion quite a bit before--if bronze or silver do not refer solely to syllabus restrictions, then how do we objectively measure proficiency? For example: someone who dances very well in bronze and beats the stew out of everyone else should have been dancing in silver and getting the stew beat out of them instead? When we make proficiency the determinant in which category to dance in, then do we really have a competition? It's the judges who determine proficiency. This is my view anyway.

Another way of saying this is, you can easily and objectively tell someone that he cannot compete in a category if he dances certain figures which are out of category. You cannot, however, objectively tell someone that he cannot dance in a category which is otherwise unrestricted because he dances too well--again, this is the job of the judges to decide. You could restrict it in other ways, like the amount of time he has been competing, number of competitions entered, or so on. But the one thing the competition does, namely to judge the best dancing, would be essentially missed if proficiency were the determinant.

I agree with the overall spirit of what you say, trust me--the idea is for people of similar levels to be dancing against one another.. I hear you.
 
Nicely put (as ever) Josh but while there are usually tools to keep this the case in AM comps (forced promotion by multiple winners) there are generally none in in pro/am in which the level is solely determined by the entrant. But from my perspective it really doesn't matter the most important rule is that you can only dance up or down one (or where there are many sub-levels such as 'intermediate bronze' two) levels. This means that if you decide to compete at a level where you are far more skilled than the competition, sure you can near guarantee yourself a win but the value of that win is diluted by the fact that its at a far lower level than you might achieve.

I came up on this when I was working through the ranks in syllabus in the Ontario comp scene. We had large fields (8-12 couples) and there was one couple that had been entrenched in Bronze for many years. While I was resentful at the time that they had not moved up and deprived me from ever getting a first place in that catagory, the feelings were quite reversed when eventually I was competing in schollarship and that competitor was still in bronze!
 
One other point on proficiency as applied to pro/am: the standard for, say Bronze, is not a static one. Not surprizingly it is generally far less advanced in a small local comp than at a large national one. What I don't know is if competitors down'graded at OSB - it certainly looked like it as a spectator but that could have been an illusion generated by the large field.

I'd be interested if anyone here adjusts their entry syllabus level according to the strength of the competition.
 
in FA the proficciency part is dealt with via testing of the syllabus. Bronze is split into four proficiency levels (well, also a couple different syllabi. All gets confusing :P ). Beginner/newcomer, intermediate, advanced and Full. I, for isntance, Competed intermediate closed and full open at last comp, as I could only use steps from their old dancesport syllabus in full open, but in closed I'd actually tetsted up to intermediate (so can't dance lower, only higher than that). Since then have tested out another proficiency level and can only enter advanced bronze or higher. Of course, with help of pro/studio you can sandbag it, as nothing is perfect, but this does do at least some work towards making silver/bronze/whtaever actually reflect proficiency. Course, how useful the test actually is depends on who's proctoring it.
 
Levels only make sense if there is a real distinction - for example if you saw two dancers and one was at intermediate bronze and the other at full could you (or even a judge) tell them apart reasonably reliably? If not then the levels may be a bit artificial. The more there are, the more tests you have to do and possibly the more lessons you have to take....
 
elisedance said:
One other point on proficiency as applied to pro/am: the standard for, say Bronze, is not a static one. Not surprizingly it is generally far less advanced in a small local comp than at a large national one. What I don't know is if competitors down'graded at OSB - it certainly looked like it as a spectator but that could have been an illusion generated by the large field.

I'd be interested if anyone here adjusts their entry syllabus level according to the strength of the competition.
Click to expand...
this was discussed exhaustively on the OSB thread and answered by many folks including myself but if you would like to chew upon it longer please start a new thread ;)
 
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