Problem: Inconsistent frame

[gracie]

I have a friend who dances Pro-Am Smooth and Standard who is very frustrated. She says that her Pro seems to have a variable frame. Some days she feels strong pressure from his left hand , other times he seems limp. His right arm drops down. She feels he holds her too far around on her left back and that he sometimes presses her into him . They will practice for a comp and then go and his frame will be totally different at the comp. and it surprises her and throws her off. Coaches come and make suggestions but none of them stick and she feels she is throwing her money away at times. She has danced with other high level Pros from the Smooth world and Standard and has never come across this before. She doesn't know what to do and has no other Pros to dance with in her area. Should she tell him what she is feeling? What would you do in this circumstance?

 

[waltzgirl]

Is there any pattern to it? For example, is he more limp at the end of a long teaching day? Or is his frame firmer right after teaching certain students (who may be sacks of potatoes and need shoving around)?

If it really bothers her, she ought to say something. It may be that he's reacting to changes in her, as well. He shouldn't, but some pro-am teachers do a lot to compensate for (rather than correct) flaws in their students.

Does she social dance? That's a great way to get used to dancing with different kinds of frame in leaders.

 

[gracie]

Is there any pattern to it? For example, is he more limp at the end of a long teaching day? Or is his frame firmer right after teaching certain students (who may be sacks of potatoes and need shoving around)?

If it really bothers her, she ought to say something. It may be that he's reacting to changes in her, as well. He shouldn't, but some pro-am teachers do a lot to compensate for (rather than correct) flaws in their students.

Does she social dance? That's a great way to get used to dancing with different kinds of frame in leaders.

That's hard to say. She did say he was very limp one day when he had the sniffles. He does dance with lots of women, maybe as many as 6-9 per day but she may be his first lesson of the day. Definitely has ladies he has to "carry". A coach made a comment once that it was "hard to keep your arms up dancing with that many- they get tired".

It bothers her as she would like to place higher and feels this is affecting it. When we looked at her video, the couples who got called back almost all had a better frame, more "open" on the ladies left side and consistant. She doesn't social dance that much and actually has been told that be detrimental while competing.

 

[Warren J. Dew]

Certainly pro-am instructors do sometimes show some effect of other students in their frame. That said, sometimes when it feels like the frame of the person you're dancing with is different, it's actually yourself that is doing something different.

Also, ladies in particular can stretch their left sides and keep them open even if the gentleman's right arm is inconsistent or even drooping.

 

[DanceMentor]

Definitely it is something that needs to be discussed if her role is to follow him and he "seems" to be inconsistent. A common ailment would be that one of the partners is taking their left side away from their partner (especially on left turning figures). Also, there could be some problems with position or balance overall.

Can your friend dance the routine herself in balance?
Have you reviewed any videos?

If the problem is him, my guess is that he is taking his left side away. Fixing that could be very simple. I've had good luck with turning the left side toward the partner without changing the right hip. It's harder for the head to fluctuate, and gives the classic look. So both partners have their right hip with their partner (without swaying!), and twist their left side toward the partner, and keep it consistent throughout the routine.

 

[fascination]

this sounds like a problem that I can't imagine having with a pro....

 

[skwiggy]

If this pro is her only option, then she will have to work with what he has. Maybe she can bring it to his attention in a constructive way that will both not insult him, and also serve to help her identify if the problem is originating with her.

In any partnership, I think the most constructive thing to do is to first explore if the problem you're feeling from your partner might be caused by you, or if there's something you can do in your own dancing to make it better.

Maybe she can say to him that the (not his) frame feels inconsistent at times, and ask him what she might be doing to cause this and how she can fix it? Explain exactly what she feels. No one can argue with a feeling. Bring it to his attention with the spoken assumption that she is the cause. If it is her causing or even contributing to it, maybe he can help her identify the issue and fix it. If it is his problem, then this brings it to his attention in a way that helps him save face as the pro, and maybe he'll be able to explore ways to fix his end of things on his own.

 

[samina]

has she asked her pro about it? it wouldn't even occur to me to *not* ask, if i noticed an inconsistency. tell her to speak up and ask what's up... partner dancing requires communication and feedback or it's just not gonna work, especially in a learning situation.

 

[Piggles]

My current pro has said that dancing pro-am is one of the most difficult things for a teacher to do because every partner has a different frame, follow, style of movement etc. To be a great pro-am teacher, he has to adapt to each student's frame as soon as the next lesson/event starts. And no matter how talented, everyone still has those niggley technique errors that are always a work-in-progress.

That said, my previous teacher simply didn't have the experience to maintain a competitive frame so I moved on.

My advice would be for your friend to sit down and talk to her teacher about her concerns. Perhaps start by finding out what his qualifications are and/or how long he's been teaching. Does he frequently teach competitive or social dancers?

Being the only available pro, perhaps if they both have a mutual understanding of each other's experience and expectations, they will be able to make the partnership work.

 

[gracie]

Thank you for all of your thoughts and suggestions. After talking and looking at the videos we think it might be that he takes his left side away and she feels no connection thru his left arm and this causes her to turn away from him leftward. I know a Pro woman would be able to maintain her own frame regardless but with a Pro-Am girl, we are so dependent on our Pro making it happen/ help us maintain. It may be a case of the Pro trying to compensate rather than taking the time and energy to drill it in to our heads. Thanks again. But don't stop now...please keep the suggestions coming.