Question about the flow of AT

[Quimbly]

I'm fairly new to AT in general. I took one class early this year, and have had a couple of workshops. That said, I'm a little confused about how the dance progresses (or whether or not it does!).

In my class and workshops, we never really danced around the room in line-of-dance. We pretty much kept to one spot, and did circular-like patterns. I figured this was the standard. Last year, however, on a business trip to Turkey, I visited a local AT bar, and much to my surprize, the whole crowd danced around line-of-dance. This was quite awkward for me, as I was really holding up traffic by doing my patterns that never progressed.

So, I'm wondering...What's the norm? How do all of you dance AT? Is that different from Milonga? etc.

 

[lynn]

I've only had a couple of AT classes, but the very first thing we learned was the walk - basically allowing you to travel around the room. We also learned circular patterns (ochos and such) but I would say that AT is very much a travelling dance.

 

[Quimbly]

I've only had a couple of AT classes, but the very first thing we learned was the walk - basically allowing you to travel around the room. We also learned circular patterns (ochos and such) but I would say that AT is very much a travelling dance.

Interesting! I was never taught "the walk". Our basic was always back right, side left, forward cross right, tango-close.

 

[JonD]

Tango is a progressive dance and obstucting or disrupting the line of dance is considered something of a sin.

Interesting! I was never taught "the walk". Our basic was always back right, side left, forward cross right, tango-close.

To be frank, I'd find another AT teacher. What you descibe is a basic salida which should be used as an exercise rather than a figure. If your teacher didn't talk about the basics - and no "walking" in a beginner class strikes me as very odd - then I'd question their competence. (I know that is a harsh judgement when I've never seen or met your teacher. Forgive me if I'm wrong, but be suspicious of people who teach figures rather than technique).

AT is a freestyle dance, there are no set patterns or figures - it's all about lead and follow. Figures are used to provide the material on which to build technique and explore principles but they should not be danced as a triggered routine of steps. For instance, I find it really irritating if a follower, who is over familiar with the salida, "crosses on 5" when I haven't led the cross.

AT is the most brilliant dance! Find someone who can really teach it and it will be a source of huge delight.

 

[lynn]

Interesting! I was never taught "the walk". Our basic was always back right, side left, forward cross right, tango-close.

this sounds like what we use as an "opening" move - ie, we start with this which is then followed by the tango walk. I find it quite odd that the tango walk isn't taught in the beginner's class b/c it's the most basic step that can get people to move around the room. Tango is a moving dance and if we aren't moving we're essentially an obstacle blocking the traffic. Perhaps visit another studio and see how tango is taught over there?

 

[Quimbly]

Thanks for the comments. The reason I'm so confused is because ALL of the instructors in my area teach it the same way. It's like in Alberta, AT is danced as a spot dance. In the class I took, and at each of the workshops, I've had different instructors. I can't attest to how great they are at AT, since I'm novice with the dance, but at least one of them was a trained professional, having taught and competed (and quite sucessfully at that) for many years. Another of the instructors exclusively teaches AT, and is also a professional who competes and gives demonstrations and performances all the time.

Maybe they all assume that I just know how to do the basic walk, but it certainly wasn't the case when I got out on the dancefloor!

 

[lynn]

yikes, I would think that the basic walk is probably the most common pattern for beginners - we only do the spots patterns in corners, rarely at the centre of the room (or else we'd be blocking the incoming traffic!). Perhaps you can come to vancouver to take a class or too? We're really not that far :wink: !

 

[Quimbly]

yikes, I would think that the basic walk is probably the most common pattern for beginners - we only do the spots patterns in corners, rarely at the centre of the room (or else we'd be blocking the incoming traffic!). Perhaps you can come to vancouver to take a class or too? We're really not that far :wink: !

Sounds like a plan. I'd LOVE to go to Van again for the salsa action Atlantis Night Club! An AT lesson or two couldn't hurt either

 

[JonD]

Lynn is right - you're going to have to leave Alberta immediately! Just sell the house, leave your job and, if necessary, your family. You know it's going to be worth it - all that Salsa and decent AT as well!

Whatever your instructors say, AT is not a spot dance. It is progressive with a normal, anti-clockwise, line of dance. The line of dance is of huge importance in a crowded milonga and navigating within it can be a nightmare. That's one of the reasons there are no set figures or routines - you can start to lead even the most simple figure and, before you know it, someone has occupied the space you needed your partner to step into. So you have to adapt - you lead something else on the spur of the moment.

No matter what the paper credentials of your teachers, if they failed to mention these basic facts at your first lesson then they are selling you short. There is no way, even after 1 hour of AT, that you should go to a milonga and be surprised at the line of dance. As for not learning the fundamentals of how to walk - well, that is the foundation of AT. It'd be like learning Salsa and nobody mentioning the footwork.

Out of interest, did they cover the "balenceo" - the way you ensure your partner is positioned with their weight on the correct foot for the first step you want to lead (you can start with any step; forward, backward, side on either foot - it just depends on the space and how the music takes you)?

 

[lynn]

balenceo?? i don't think i've heard of that, but my AT knowledge is very, very VERY limted . I've always wondered how do you make sure your partner is on the correct foot. Some ppl start with salida while others go straight into tango walks - unfortunately, if i have my weight on the wrong foot, i'll trip over my partner right there on step 1!

 

[Quimbly]

Out of interest, did they cover the "balenceo" - the way you ensure your partner is positioned with their weight on the correct foot for the first step you want to lead (you can start with any step; forward, backward, side on either foot - it just depends on the space and how the music takes you)?

There was no mention of "balenceo" specifically, no. Basically we were taught the "basic" step, as I described above, and many patterns (many whose names I forget): the lady's "sit", the "americana?", the ocho and double ocho, the saleda(sp?), and others. Some instructions of technique, but no mention of switching weight or anything...

 

[JonD]

Folks, I'm no expert! I've only been dancing AT for 3 1/2 years but I have danced in the UK, Holland, France and Julie and I spent the whole of April in Buenos Aires. I have to say that I'm a bit surprised that you're obviously being taught using a "figures based" system. Figures are great learning tools - they allow you to practice the "grammar" of the dance. But with AT it's normal to get the "grammar" right before you start building a "vocabulary". I dance Modern Jive (in fact I've got to get showered and go dancing in about 3 minutes!) which is taught as "moves" or "figures" from the outset and there is a distinct difference in AT. AT is defined by the quality of the movement, the connection with your partner and the lead/follow element - I'm not talking about "Fantasy Tango" (Show Tango) which is obviously choreographed, but social AT.

Balanceo is where you lead your partner to shift weight from one foot to the other. Stand, feet together, and simply lead your partner to change weight. It should be almost invisible to an observer and independent of where your weight is - so I can be on my left and put my partner on her left. To start, just shift your weight to your left and ask your partner to shift her weight to her right and vice-versa. That way you'll always know which leg she's going to move when you lead a step.

Got to fly - a dancefloor calls!

 

[lynn]

oh, o.k., i learned that in ballroom and the instructor did tell us to do that at the start of the dance but she didn't give us a formal name - or maybe she did, i just didin't remember it !!

Q, i really think you should take a trip down to vancouver (not to mention that we've got really good ski resorts this time of the year :wink:!!!). I took an 8-week AT class a while back and I would say the classes are structured pretty good that we are able to move around the room (granted, with some tripping involved) and some figure steps you mentioned.

 

[FTL]

The 8 count basic was probably used as a starting point but once you learn the different ways of walking you'll eventually shed that basic 8 count. In my experience it is being used as a quick reference point when they are teaching figures but you can actually perform these figures using some of the types of walk as preparation. You can dance AT just by walking, preferrably with embellishments. You might want to get a private lesson just on walking, if not there is an instructional video I've seen that spent some time on tango walks. It's probably one of the Daniel Trenner videos.

 

[DavidL]

Typically I move in line of dance for a while, then I dance in place for a while. Repeat.

Really, though, it depends *a lot* on the other people on the floor. If they are moving around quickly, so will I. If traffic is slow, then I'll progress slowly.

Regarding the 8-count basic:
I think it is useful (in part) because many beginners need to feel like they are dancing, and asking people to start with walking and posture would probably lose a number of people who would otherwise have started to learn tango.

Best,
David