Question: Any way to rein in a hazardous leader?

[Peaches]

So Friday I was asked to dance by a guy I'd never seen out dancing before. And, because I'm just that oblivious, I hadn't watched him dancing before he asked me. So he asks, I accept, we get out to a spot on the floor and get started...and that's when I realized that they guy was definitely a menace. Not to me--he was actually a very good leader (if you disregard the floorcraft issue--I'm just talking raw ability), and was an absolute blast to dance with, but he was a hazard to others around us. This was WCS, and he wasn't in a slot in the least, was taking up a ton of room, and half the time was perpendicular to the slot. Eeek!

I tried, every chance I got, to get myself back into a slot, hoping he would take the hint. No such luck. I did try to keep things very very calm, and I tried my best to keep my movement small. Easier said than done.

Short of walking off the floor in the middle of the dance, is there something I could have done? Any way to tame a wild leader? (Because hazard issues aside, he was so.much.fun to dance with.)

 

[Bailamosdance]

If he is so good and you had so much fun, why worry? Good dancing is to be treasured...

You may need to find a less crowded venue, or probably be dancing around better dancers who are ok with more freedom of movement....

 

[freeageless]

So Friday I was asked to dance by a guy I'd never seen out dancing before. And, because I'm just that oblivious, I hadn't watched him dancing before he asked me. So he asks, I accept, we get out to a spot on the floor and get started...and that's when I realized that they guy was definitely a menace. Not to me--he was actually a very good leader (if you disregard the floorcraft issue--I'm just talking raw ability), and was an absolute blast to dance with, but he was a hazard to others around us. This was WCS, and he wasn't in a slot in the least, was taking up a ton of room, and half the time was perpendicular to the slot. Eeek!

I tried, every chance I got, to get myself back into a slot, hoping he would take the hint. No such luck. I did try to keep things very very calm, and I tried my best to keep my movement small. Easier said than done.

Short of walking off the floor in the middle of the dance, is there something I could have done? Any way to tame a wild leader? (Because hazard issues aside, he was so.much.fun to dance with.)

Peaches, your comments remind me of the comments my cruise dance instructor told me. I had just met her for the first time on the cruise for a private lesson. I watched her and her partner give a performance of various dances on the cruise ship the night before. I told her that she see seemed much larger on stage than she did in real life. I also stated that it was obvious that she and her partner owned ie., controlled that stage. She and her partner dance competitively at high levels. She informed me that it is like a war zone at high levels-that people knock you down, and she implied that you have to be able to be in command. Maybe your dance partner wants to be in command-though he may end up being knocked down.

 

[Peaches]

If he is so good and you had so much fun, why worry? Good dancing is to be treasured...

You may need to find a less crowded venue, or probably be dancing around better dancers who are ok with more freedom of movement....

Because the fact that he was a good leader (technically) and the fact that I did (admittedly) have a blast doesn't change the fact that it is hazardous and inconsiderate of other people around him. That's just.not.cool. And it wasn't a case of better dancers being OK with freedom of movement. There are some very good dancers at this place, and they can work around someone who's being dangerous...but that doesn't change the fact that they are having to compensate for someone else who is a menace. Again...not.cool.

I would hate to have to turn down this leader in the future for floorcraft reasons. It was fun, in a very selfish sort of way. So if I could find a way to mitigate his actions it would be worthwhile...otherwise, not so much.

 

[clumsy fellow]

Honesty; "Dude you are a great leader and a blast to dance with but I am uncomfortable not dancing in a slot. Please keep me in the slot so that I can dance without fear."

A jerk will walk away, a gentleman will accommodate.

 

[Steve Pastor]

One possibility is that you could start a conversation about where and from whom he learned "West Coast Swing". This will "of course" lead to a discussion of the slot.
"Some" of the early descriptions of the dance (circa 1960) state that it is ok to change the orientation of the slot. Most state that it is simply not done.
Then you go into the fact that everyone here dances strictly slotted. Can we do that?

I've had women break the slot and end up facing a different direction and then ask me why I lead them out of the slot (which of course I didn't do!). I'm wondering if it would be worth trying a stubborn "There are my two walls. I am spotting and WILL orient myself to them at the end of each pattern, and walk only one of two directions."

Another tactic would be to take him as far away from everyone as you can.

 

[bia]

Peaches, your comments remind me of the comments my cruise dance instructor told me. I had just met her for the first time on the cruise for a private lesson. I watched her and her partner give a performance of various dances on the cruise ship the night before. I told her that she see seemed much larger on stage than she did in real life. I also stated that it was obvious that she and her partner owned ie., controlled that stage. She and her partner dance competitively at high levels. She informed me that it is like a war zone at high levels-that people knock you down, and she implied that you have to be able to be in command. Maybe your dance partner wants to be in command-though he may end up being knocked down.

Possible, freeageless, but if so, his desire reflects a lack of understanding of the difference between competitive/performance dancing and social dancing. The first is about being big, being seen, dominating the floor. And if you're inconveniencing your competitors at the same time, well, they may not like you for it, but you are competing with them, after all. The norms for social dancing are very different. One of the central complaints we find on threads about what people hate on the social dance floor is people who dance in a competitive/performance style there without regard for its inappropriateness in that crowded context. So, yeah, it'd be good if this leader could learn how to dance safely among others. But I'm sorry, Peaches, I don't have any productive ideas for how you can help him get there. I'm a bit surprised that he's been doing this long enough to get this good without figuring it out already.

 

[freeageless]

Possible, freeageless, but if so, his desire reflects a lack of understanding of the difference between competitive/performance dancing and social dancing. The first is about being big, being seen, dominating the floor. And if you're inconveniencing your competitors at the same time, well, they may not like you for it, but you are competing with them, after all. The norms for social dancing are very different. One of the central complaints we find on threads about what people hate on the social dance floor is people who dance in a competitive/performance style there without regard for its inappropriateness in that crowded context. So, yeah, it'd be good if this leader could learn how to dance safely among others. But I'm sorry, Peaches, I don't have any productive ideas for how you can help him get there. I'm a bit surprised that he's been doing this long enough to get this good without figuring it out already.

Bia, excellent points that you make about the differences between competitive dancing and social dancing. I had not thought about that. I have no desire to be a competitive dancer. I am only interested in being a good social dancer. Maybe that's why. Also, my private lesson dance teacher told me that there are big differences between being a good social dancer and being a good competitive dancer. Maybe that is part of what she meant.

 

[kayak]

There are a number of popular patterns that are perpendicular to the slot. Just pointing out that making the slot an hour glass or adding several measures at 90 degrees to the slot is pretty acceptable.

That doesn't mean he wasn't out of control and out bowling for other dancers. The easiest way to make a pattern stay smaller is to just dance smaller. If he makes a big drifting anchor and you only take a small step, he basically has to come back to your original slot. If you follow him with that big side step, the new slot is straight back from where you two line up.

 

[danceronice]

Bia, excellent points that you make about the differences between competitive dancing and social dancing. I had not thought about that. I have no desire to be a competitive dancer. I am only interested in being a good social dancer. Maybe that's why. Also, my private lesson dance teacher told me that there are big differences between being a good social dancer and being a good competitive dancer. Maybe that is part of what she meant.

Not in terms of skills you need to know or in technique, but HOW you dance in the two different settings is definitely different. Both involve floorcraft and knowing your space, but social floorcraft is not about showing yourself off to your best advantage and avoiding any traffic hazards, but rather about the entire floor maintaining a flow without dancers interfering with one another. You don't want to interfere with other people deliberately in competition, but in a social-dance setting, it's even more so. Especially since at a social, it's more likely there's a very mixed proficiency level out on the floor! You don't want advanced dancers plowing down beginners, or beginners practically dancing in place in the middle of the line of dance. The technique's not really that different, but the etiquette is very different.

 

[DL]

Especially since at a social, it's more likely there's a very mixed proficiency level out on the floor!

...which makes things tricky for *all* the leaders there.

Plus, if there's tension between what my partner apparently would most enjoy and what would be optimal for floorcraft (which it seems existed in this case), I have a lot of trade-offs to make, in real time, throughout the dance.

My advice: Keep dancing with him, find some basis to converse off the floor, and after establishing a basic relationship look for a chance to make a suggestion. For example, "This time let's go over *there* where we have room!"

Note that followers aren't (at least in this context) responsible for floorcraft, and leaders have their own private words with each other from time to time for "incidents."

 

[drejenpha]

I'd say that if he didn't run either of you into anyone, nobody was shooting looks at him, and no one said anything to you then there doesn't seem to be harm in him dancing out of slot. Part of the fun of leading is doing something different, staying in a slot has its limits (how am I ever going to steal someone else's partner if we both stay in slot out of reach?).

 

[Zhena]

So Friday I was asked to dance by a guy I'd never seen out dancing before. And, because I'm just that oblivious, I hadn't watched him dancing before he asked me. So he asks, I accept, we get out to a spot on the floor and get started...and that's when I realized that they guy was definitely a menace. Not to me--he was actually a very good leader (if you disregard the floorcraft issue--I'm just talking raw ability), and was an absolute blast to dance with, but he was a hazard to others around us. This was WCS, and he wasn't in a slot in the least, was taking up a ton of room, and half the time was perpendicular to the slot. Eeek!

I tried, every chance I got, to get myself back into a slot, hoping he would take the hint. No such luck. I did try to keep things very very calm, and I tried my best to keep my movement small. Easier said than done.

Short of walking off the floor in the middle of the dance, is there something I could have done? Any way to tame a wild leader? (Because hazard issues aside, he was so.much.fun to dance with.)

BTDT. I don't want to end up in someone else's space, I don't want to crash into anyone else ... so what can a follower do IN THE MOMENT to not be a partner-in-crime to floor hogging? I don't have an answer ... I also ask the question ....

 

[Wyndstorm Huntress]

BTDT. I don't want to end up in someone else's space, I don't want to crash into anyone else ... so what can a follower do IN THE MOMENT to not be a partner-in-crime to floor hogging? I don't have an answer ... I also ask the question ....

I find the abject fear in my face and physically steeling myself as I brace for impact when I know I'm about to be danced into someone else is usually a good hint.

 

[jennyisdancing]

BTDT. I don't want to end up in someone else's space, I don't want to crash into anyone else ... so what can a follower do IN THE MOMENT to not be a partner-in-crime to floor hogging? I don't have an answer ... I also ask the question ....

If someone's leading me big, to the point of risking crashing me into someone else, I start making my movements smaller - and if I really see myself about to collide with someone, I just stop carrying out the move, although I keep the rhythm and step in place. An experienced leader will be able to tell why I am doing this, and some of them will catch on right away and adjust their style. Some leaders instead make a puzzled face, and then I explain that I was trying to avoid bumping into someone. At that point, if he doesn't get the message and adjust his style, not much else you can do other than choose not to dance with him again.