Subliminal
Well-Known Member
Wow! Had a fantastic lesson on following tonight. Always amazed at how it changes my viewpoint. I almost want to say... followers live in the past. Leaders live in the future. The two meet in the moment.
Random thoughts about following
- Thread starter Gssh
- Start date
newbie
Well-Known Member
Yes the leader lives in the future but the follower lives in the present. Step and forget. If she lives in the past it means "Oh a boleo is what I was supposed to do. Oh another one that I missed. Oh while I was thinking about my two consecutive missed boleos he led a dobble-time that I missed as well..."
Subliminal
Well-Known Member
hmm. I dunno. I guess we are sort of saying the same thing. But for me, when I am in hyper awareness mode, it really helps to slow down and really work on the last step that was lead. In many cases the lead for the next step is already on the way. Concentrating on the present can lead to cutting off the previous step... anticipating if you will.
I don't think so... present is not future: it's present.
If in this very present moment you are in the middle of a step, with a weight 50% on a leg and 50% on the other leg... that's where you are. You could freeze this moment and remain in this position, you could go on completing the step, you could bounce and go back, you could have a barrida... but all that options are for the future.
Subliminal
Well-Known Member
Man. I suddenly know how the followers on this board feel. Nope, I can't possibly feel what I'm feeling, or think what I'm thinking, that must be wrong. 
Man. I suddenly know how the followers on this board feel. Nope, I can't possibly feel what I'm feeling, or think what I'm thinking, that must be wrong.
No, not a problem. As a follower, I don't have any agenda, I don't have to go anywhere or "complete" anything, since there isn't any plan. I enjoy the present, go with the flow. Direction could suddenly be changed or a step could be intercepted. Fine. It becomes boleo or gancho. These are the spices to the dance.
bastet
Active Member
Man. I suddenly know how the followers on this board feel. Nope, I can't possibly feel what I'm feeling, or think what I'm thinking, that must be wrong.
ah well...
So, what's your point?Man. I suddenly know how the followers on this board feel. Nope, I can't possibly feel what I'm feeling, or think what I'm thinking, that must be wrong.
sixela
Well-Known Member
I think those that use the word "conversation" simply want to stress that it is two-way communication. Not all communication is.
I can't understand what's so difficult about thinking about the main things the follower communicates. She communicates the first thing the leader also communicates: I'm here and nowhere else in this moment. And while he may communicate "I'm going there" or "I'm turning to there", she can continuously communicate "I currently want to be going there at this exact speed".
There's something that I know I'm not understanding the true essence of (in your post), like why the follower needs to communicate that she's here, (when I'm already in an embrace with her and have a pretty good idea where she is). Thus there are possibly other things as well that I'm not fully understanding properly. So at the risk of looking foolish, I'll ask a couple basic questions to try to improve my understanding how you feel the conversation should work.
So in this model/philosophy, are there other messages the follower can send (like which step she wants to take, which direction to go, etc.), or are the messages limited to "where she is" and the speed of the steps?
Also, is the leader communicating the speed he wants, with the follower deciding to change it, or is the leader simply not sending a message on the speed?
FWIW, I approach this from a different paradigm. I indicate where I'd like for her to go/move, and then I try to accompany her, while she is (hopefully) trying to accompany me. If things don't go as I intended, then I deal with/adapt to whatever she is doing (and of course try to indicate what I'd like for her to do next). While I may quickly try to make a determination on why things didn't go as expected, unfortunately I often am not sure what that reason is.
Some possibilities are that:
1) The lead wasn't clear enough.
2) She was not able (or didn't understand how) to do what I was looking for.
3) She was uninterested/unwilling to do what I was looking for.
The reality is that right at the moment, it doesn't matter what the reason is, as I just need to realize that she is not doing what I expected, and then adjust what I'm doing to try to accompany her in whatever she is doing. It's later on in the dance where the reason becomes a factor, as it will influence whether I'll try to lead it better, not even try the step/move again, or accept that she's going to do her own thing there (which could be OK, depending on the follower).
Of course, I still make a lot of mistakes.
Couldn't quite get this either. Have decided that I understand it in terms of posture, axis, and clean weight changes.
Makes sense in terms of say, conforming to, for instance an arraste.
Must add, though, I have found that women who really know the music have an easier time following me, because they hear the same things that I do. And we are dancing to the same music.
sixela
Well-Known Member
Well, how do you think you communicate? You always communicate through the embrace.
Only through subtle differences in resistance. A leader can always choose to ignore that and impose his will, or be willing to be influenced.
Speed is negotiated. Constantly. The resolution of the step (not the decision to resolve it and change weight, but the timing) tends to be decided by the follower, I've noticed. At least if she's a good follower and a musical one (and if you're a good leader you'll see it all feels quite natural).
I *like* my followers to interpret the music. If stepping to the music and making the dance "breathe" within the musical phrase and melody (because not everything is that rigidly tied to divisors of the basic beat) is interpreted by two people, I don't have to bear it all myself.
I don't think many followers like an unclear lead, but I don't think they appreciate the iron fisted "I'm going where I'm going and at the speed I'm going regardless of where you are, and you'd better make sure you're exactly where I expect you to be". That is never going to be a smooth ride, and it robs the dance of a lot.
That's exactly what I'm talking about, actually.
You must be very confident about your musicality. I shall seek you out for a tanda this summer.
I always thought that I know the music. However, there is one gentleman who kept reminding me to step on the beat every time he danced with me. I don't understand why he told people that I was good if he thought that I could not follow the music.
I think a good leader should also follow, though not in the same way a follower follows.