Rant - Don't mind me...

[fascination]

you're not enabling when you are doing it for yourself... and when you can do without it....it is a mutually gratifying exploitation if you want to be a cynic...and a friendship if you want to be all mushy...today, I prefer the former....and I think I am operating from a position of sobriety these days...six months ago, you may have had a point....

 

[Laura]

scholarship is a multi dance event and you can win a little stipend ...and they make a bigger deal about it than just winning a heat so most folks who are picking and choosing would prefer to dance it...and if you share a pro it can be an issue

Heh.

I loved dancing in the Scholarships because there was actual competition. So many times I'd go to a Pro/Am comp and there would be only one or two other couples to dance against in my single-dance events. But, I'd get to the Scholarship, and there would be enough people to have a semi-final -- or sometimes even a quarter-final! See, in the Scholarships they collapse all the level and age and gender sub-categories. So, rather than there being "Full Silver Ladies' A-2" with only two couples in it, it would be ALL silver Pro/Am dancers, regardless of age or sex. I found it to be very exciting.

(I feel a little weird saying this, but I've not danced Pro/Am for about two years now, and I'm kind of missing it. I'm not sure that I want to go back to it -- after all, not doing Pro/Am has funded my world travels -- but still, when I watch "Dancing with the Stars," I get a little wistful for my days dancing with David Weise.)

 

[fascination]

well like I said...I think thats true for the bigger comps...some here in the midwest are rather anemic through and through...whenever you miss pro-am...just remember the feeling of always being the weaker dancer ....

 

[Laura]

Oh, I get that feeling often enough dancing with my amateur partner. But he gets it too, so it works out more evenly in the end.

 

[LXC]

The couple of pro-am comp registration materials I have seen all required number of single dance entries and being on package to enter scholarship events, so I have assumed it's the norm and I've been wondering why in the world can so many people afford it? As long as people pay as asked, they'll indefinitely increase the price. I'm be curious to see when it reaches the ceiling, when comp entries dramatically decrease and prices start to go down.

Many of these pro-am comps are also not very friendly to amateurs. They require extra registration fee on top of entry and admission and they schedule am events during the least convenient or visible times. Of course since amteurs are not the high paying customers, what rights do we have to ask for better service?

 

[saludas]

The scary part of all this is that the typical proam lady, even knowing all this, will still 'compete', thinking that it's the only way or the right way only.

I can just see the organizers, at the bar, giggling about how a 'Scholarship' event that costs students over $6000 in entries (6 students assumed) can pay $200 for a 'first place'. And the students actually 'line up' to do it. I only wish that this was a legal profit margin in my business!

I almost forgot - they probably pay a few percent of the entries to this heat to the top teacher' award (the kickback that the teachers get for hyping their students to enter this event); but that's still only a tiny $ amount.

No WONDER they are not so happy about Dancesport; the couples who are not involved with proam pay only a few $$s to a comp, while the proam lady pays literally thousands.

 

[Laura]

One thing I've noticed for sure is that comps in some parts of the country can be very different from comps in others. This goes for NDCA, USA Dance, and collegiate competitions.

Out here in the San Francisco Bay Area, the organizers try really hard to treat everyone well: Pro/Ams, Pros, and Amateurs. It's a delicate balancing act. But good things have been happening over the years that I've been dancing out here.

Take the San Francisco Open as just one good example of a well-balanced NDCA competition out here. No amateur events are during the day on Friday, except for the "solo" competitions. I dance Standard, and the Pre-Novice (Closed Syllabus) Standard and the Novice (Open Syllabus) Standard are both held on Saturday afternoon. Ballroom tickets for that time are $15 per person (which is in the range that my friends can pay) and the entry fees are $15 per event. So, for me and my partner to dance three events (Closed Syllabus W/Q, Closed Syllabus T/F, and Novice Standard W/F/Q) will cost a grand total of $75 for us as a couple:

2 entry tickets @ $15 = $30
3 event fees @ $15 = $45

Divided by two, that's $37.50 per person for the biggest and best-run NDCA competition in our area. We'll definitely get semi-finals in our events, and usually get quarter-finals.

Our USA Dance chapter hosts low-cost competitions, the nearest equivalent in size to the SF Open would be our Regional competition that we do in odd-numbered years. That cost $25 per person, so about 1/3rd less. So yeah, there can be a pretty big difference in price between our el-cheapo events and what the SF Open offers, but even at $37.50 per person we aren't being gouged.

Other local competitions out here cost about the same. The International Grand Ball is a bit more expensive for amateurs, and the collegiate competitions are a bit less for adult non-students. The wost anyone has done scheduling-wise to the amateurs is that for the past two years, the Closed Syllabus amateur events at the SF Open were held on Friday afternoon. I think that really cut into the attendance (I recall there used to be quarter-finals, and the numbers dropped in half when they were moved from Friday night to Friday afternoon). Fortunately the organizers have changed this, so I'm hoping it will be good-sized again this year.

(Heck, I'm hoping I can actually dance it it...K.'s leg muscle is still not good. We tried dancing on it after six weeks of rest and he hurt it again. We might take all of February off, which does not bode well for us being able to do the SF Open. Sigh. I love that competition!)

 

[SDsalsaguy]

I have to agree with Laura, the pricing structures I've seen run the gamut. The SFO and Yankee are just two of the events that always seemed to try and go out of its way to accomadate the collegiate and amateur dancers in attendance. Other events, by contrast, are absurd.

 

[fascination]

Oh, I get that feeling often enough dancing with my amateur partner. But he gets it too, so it works out more evenly in the end.

thats what I mean...he feels that way too sometimes

 

[fascination]

The scary part of all this is that the typical proam lady, even knowing all this, will still 'compete', thinking that it's the only way or the right way only.

I can just see the organizers, at the bar, giggling about how a 'Scholarship' event that costs students over $6000 in entries (6 students assumed) can pay $200 for a 'first place'. And the students actually 'line up' to do it. I only wish that this was a legal profit margin in my business!

I almost forgot - they probably pay a few percent of the entries to this heat to the top teacher' award (the kickback that the teachers get for hyping their students to enter this event); but that's still only a tiny $ amount.

No WONDER they are not so happy about Dancesport; the couples who are not involved with proam pay only a few $$s to a comp, while the proam lady pays literally thousands.

but as you note...the pro am lady pays that freely...she doesnt have to and she does have other options if she chooses....when comps are reasonable they are reasonable ...when they are outrageous they are outrageous...I don't really see that as a pro/am issue....there are all sorts of dumb ways to part with ones money...only some are about pro/am...others are about studios...others are about deciding to dance every flipping heat that you can...others are about comp requirements....all are voluntary

 

[alemana]

plenty of people do plenty of things without coercion.. not sure why that is a good argument.

 

[chica latina]

I'm still outraged with the cost of USABDA comps around my area. South East
ex. $125/person (not a Regionals) and last year didn't have any semi-final for Champ events. I don't feel like it will make sense to pay $250 + hotel to dance once and by myself. My coaches recommend us to get more exposure this year and compete more but I do prefer to use the money for lessons (which I can only have during the weekends) than to dance in an event like this. I guess I should start thinking about driving farther to get good price comps and some exposure or start to contact people around my area and do some shows (which I don't enjoy as a comp). This is frustrating!!!

 

[DancingMommy]

Hey...I was thinking about you the other day (pulled out those daunting stones...ugh). Hope you're doing well. I'm hormonal today, too, if it makes you feel any better (misery loves company??).

Anyway, those prices are absurd. I thought the Commonwealth was bad...you paid $100 to win $100. I don't know what these people are thinking.

Thanks for thinking of me. I'm in the home stretch now. 9 weeks, 3 days (not that I'm counting or anything). I've not seen the inside of a dance studio for MONTHS. I'm suffering a bit of withdrawal, but with the bway my body has been acting up lately (since October?) I'm lucky I'm not on bedrest....

 

[DancingMommy]

I have to agree with Laura, the pricing structures I've seen run the gamut. The SFO and Yankee are just two of the events that always seemed to try and go out of its way to accomadate the collegiate and amateur dancers in attendance. Other events, by contrast, are absurd.

Welcome to Floriduh.... Where we can't figure out how to vote and we don't know any better than spend our SSI checks on dance lessons/competitions...

It makes me absolutely SICK. Florida seems to be one of the WORST places for competition rip-offs. BAH!

 

[saludas]

but as you note...the pro am lady pays that freely...she doesnt have to and she does have other options if she chooses....when comps are reasonable they are reasonable ...when they are outrageous they are outrageous...I don't really see that as a pro/am issue....there are all sorts of dumb ways to part with ones money...only some are about pro/am...others are about studios...others are about deciding to dance every flipping heat that you can...others are about comp requirements....all are voluntary

I used to believe that - "let 'em do what they want', but more and more I am feeling that that attitude is really a meanspirited, negative one.

What I mean is, it's really mean to NOT try to help people, especially when they''re in situations where they are either ignorant of all the options or being pushed into something. Yes, you get shot down a lot (usually by the folks who either have a lot invested into the scam, or by people who are defensive about themselves being part of it) but I won't sleep well if I at least try.