Rate your experience with BR, salsa, TA, swing based on difficulty?

[Greybeard]

I voted waltz based on just getting past rookie. I defined that as a few variations and moves. I stopped before getting into rise and fall or the salsa hip movement. When you started talking about intermediate I changed my mind. They are all about the same difficulty when you get to intermediate.

I think you also miss the "distinct flavors" of the dances. Here are my interpretations of their distinct flavors (others are welcome to disagree):

Waltz: Smooth, flowing, elegant. Rise and fall is one of the tools used to make work. Other tools are a formal posture and frame, and elegant arm movements. The variations are also calculated for smoothness.
Salsa: Energetic and sexy. The name means saucy. Does the held beat make it a bit more staccato than the other latin / rhythm dances? The hip movement and variations tend to promote sexy and the music is fast latin.
East Coast Swing (Substitute for and similar to lindy): Relaxed stationary dance with rotating moves. Lots of moves use one hand hold instead of a closed frame.
Argentine: Communications between the couple where the leader proposes and the follower interprets the lead. Very tied to the musicality, where a song is rhythmic the movements are rhythmic, where the song is melodic, the movements are smoother.

 

[Akylas]

All of those dances will have similiar skill levels as you get more into them but Lindy and Argentine Tango are the two where you can work hard and progress at a reasonable pace for a couple years and still be considered a beginner.

You can get by at Lindy dances just knowing some east coast swing, which is much easier to start with. I think salsa is similar to ecs in terms of difficulty in getting started, but I don't speak from experience.

If you learn waltz you'll want to know at least a couple other ballroom dances to be able to do much at a dance (one of which can be east coast swing), so keep that in mind.

 

[opendoor]

..Argentine Tango.. you can work hard and progress at a reasonable pace for a couple years and still be considered a beginner..

No one told you that gold star level is a beginner grade, too.

 

[Akylas]

I'd be surprised if they did considering the ballroom teacher I took lessons from didn't do medal exams

More seriously, that's not too surprising. Just like getting a black belt just means you've started learning a martial art. I do think learning to do swingouts is more difficult than the basic in most dances, but since you can learn the east coast basic and a few turns and have fun at most swing dances it's kind of a moot pointm

 

[David_In_CA]

If you learn waltz you'll want to know at least a couple other ballroom dances to be able to do much at a dance (one of which can be east coast swing), so keep that in mind.

I think this is an overlooked and important point. There are Lindy-only dances, WCS-only dances, AT-only dances, and Salsa-only dances. That means that you can learn one dance and dance for most of the evening. I'm not aware of any Waltz-only dances. My impression is that a ballroom dance will play songs for many different styles during the night; waltz might be 20% or less.

 

[opendoor]

..There are Lindy-only dances, WCS-only dances, AT-only dances, and Salsa-only dances..

Good point, David. Admitted, lindyhoppers vary their music fewest of all. But things in the tango and salsa world are different:

..- At tango parties they alternate tango with argentine waltz (viennese speed) and milonga (polka-like).
..- At salsa parties they alternate casino with a great variety of different styles (cha-cha-chá, marengue, .....bachata, timba, bolero. Nowadays also cubaton or kizomba).

So BR only holds a middle position.

 

[longtry]

Thank you @snapdancer & @Greybeard ! Your insights are valuable. @Akylas & @David_D 's advice is also useful. You mentioned it's easier to dance lindy if one knows WCS, so does it work vice versa? If I know lindy can I do some acceptable WCS, or... ECS?

@lucia_l : It looks like my understanding about what to expect at certain skill levels doesn't accurately reflect reality. Which is to be expected, since I don't have experience (at all). However, this kind of proves that I have a tendency to strive for those 'unique flavors' right when I start learning a dance. It will help me learn a bit quicker, right?

Anyway, I can see the census is that in order to really know the distinct characteristics of a particular dance, one will have to gain a considerable skill already (low-intermediate?). That's what my goal will be when I learn those 4 categories.

 

[opendoor]

My advice longtry, simply start now! Don‘t be anxious for re-learning when you should change your style in future. So many dancers come over from BR to tango. So many ballroomers dance salsa or lindy as well. In the beginning the specific characteristics do not count that much. (BR) slow waltz can be reused in the argentine tango world, salsa moves too. It‘s only about to get started, finally.

 

[David_In_CA]

.- At salsa parties they alternate casino with a great variety of different styles (cha-cha-chá, marengue, .....bachata, timba, bolero. Nowadays also cubaton or kizomba).

So BR only holds a middle position.

Thanks for the info! I did not realize that salsa parties played that many different types of dances.

@longtry -- watch a video of each dance, and start with the one that most makes you want to move. That will be the easiest to learn (for you).

If you are comfortable with Lindy, you can take a couple of WCS basic classes and get by. You'll have an accent on your dance, but most of the basic patterns are shared between the two. Same would work in the other direction. The styling and posture are very different, and LH is danced much faster, but they're really fairly similar.

 

[lucia_l]

@lucia_l : It looks like my understanding about what to expect at certain skill levels doesn't accurately reflect reality. Which is to be expected, since I don't have experience (at all). However, this kind of proves that I have a tendency to strive for those 'unique flavors' right when I start learning a dance. It will help me learn a bit quicker, right?

[/QUOTE]
I don't teach, so I don't have enough experience to say what makes people learn quicker.

But I have seen lots of beginners. At first, most want to have an enjoyable dance experience on the floor, and knowing a few basic patterns, and how to lead or follow them gives them a feeling of progress. Technique is important, but I've never heard an absolute beginner complain that not enough time was spent on rise and fall during the first lesson. For most, it's only later on that they wish they had magically learned the rise and fall.

Also bear in mind: some beginners are really, really, really beginnerish. I've danced wit beginner guys you are concentrating and saying "one two three, four five six" during every step of their first try of waltz around the floor. Learning rise and fall would be overwhelming for these people whoa re still struggling to walk to the beat!

 

[longtry]

Then I guess I'm more of a 'rookyish' beginner, haha. On a related subject, do you guys think teachers should at least talk a bit about what the characteristics of a particular dance are right in the beginning? Like, telling us what makes salsa salsa at the start of the very 1st session?

@David_D : I've watched some videos of those 4 and like them all, but I did indeed have a wee bit preference of waltz and lindy. However, as you mentioned, I realized lindy is really fast and it makes me sweat just thinking about that dance in tropical weather. Maybe I'll have to change my mind and choose a slower representative for the Swing category, which should be... WCS?

@opendoor : sure thing! As per the result of you guys' opinions on the poll, I'll start by finding a waltz class.

 

[David_In_CA]

lindy is really fast and it makes me sweat just thinking about that dance in tropical weather. Maybe I'll have to change my mind and choose a slower representative for the Swing category, which should be... WCS?

+1

If there's a WCS scene, go for that. I've only spent a few days in Vietnam, and I can't imagine moving fast in that weather.

 

[raindance]

Truly, take a look around your local dance scenes, studios, and options. Drop by and visit and get a general feeling for a few places, the teachers, the local dancers, what's being danced, etc, and pick a place to start. Which dance you get started with is less important than finding a local place or two that offers something you like (not just a type of dance, but a teacher or group classes, and some other dancers doing that dance or those dances), and getting started.

If you have time to try a couple of different studios or dance venues, it's fine to try a couple of different ones at a time as you sample things in the beginning. It's also fine to start with one place and decide whether to branch out later on.

I'm from the USA, not Asia, so I've no idea of what your local dance options are there. If I was advising someone here, I'd suggest they start with group ballroom classes (which would likely cover a bit of a few different dances suitable for beginners, including maybe waltz, foxtrot, rumba, etc) at a couple of local studios. For ballroom, they could consider private lessons later if they like it and can afford it. And/or start with a beginner west coast swing class or workshop if there is a good local west coast swing scene. But I just don't know what you have available there.

Good luck, and post back and let us know what you try and what you like!

 

[Greybeard]

On a related subject, do you guys think teachers should at least talk a bit about what the characteristics of a particular dance are right in the beginning? Like, telling us what makes salsa salsa at the start of the very 1st session?

No.

Students will have enough to think about during the first lesson without talking about style. Step pattern, timing, connection, the beat, new people they are meeting. You don't want to overload them.

Someplace (on this forum?) I read that the dance syllabus was designed to teach one thing at a time. The first lesson might be stepping on the beat and changing weight each time. The next might* be how to use the connection to do a simple couple turn. Then maybe how to do an under arm turn. Actually getting into the details about style (Hip motion, rise and fall, etc.) would probably come when the student can move with some confidence, but before bad habits develop.

* Emphasis on the might -- I'm a social dancer with a lot of experience picking up variations in random lessons here and there who just started private lessons last year and started using the syllabus earlier this year.

 

[opendoor]

@opendoor: ..sure.. I'll start by finding a waltz class..

So now, assuming you've passed it, what is your concern now?