Reasons to give up Tango

[opendoor]

..comfortable with the close contact that's required. Then you have to get comfortable with sharing your balance with a partner. That goes along with learning to follow your center, placing the free leg underneath if you feel off balance, hopefully coordinated with music.
This involves a lot of moving a shared axis forward, backward and side ways. Then you can add in weight changes: simultaneously then led..

Isn't that biomechanics?

I imagined "deep connection" as something that goes beyond communication, something like empathy or telepathy

 

[MediocresAires]

I think both is necessary. For me Tango is like a dialogue: You can't really connect with someone you can't understand because he speaks too quietly, has a bad pronunciation, is deaf etc. - the "biomechanics" of it. That's the first part. But if the partner is able to speak/listen just ok, but chooses to only monologue without listening what you have to say, there is also no connection. That's the emotional part.

 

[opendoor]

..For me Tango is like a dialogue: You can't really connect with someone you can't understand because he..

But you first have to understand yourself before you start with foreign languages! So for me biomechanics come first. Especially closed embrace dancers want to dance in shared axis before they have learned to master their own axis.

 

[fiesta0618]

I'm with opendoor. You can't really connect well with someone else unless you are well connected within and throughout yourself. And that is technique and biomechanics. Those are prerequisite.

Once those are in place, then questions of personality and openness come into play. But not till then!

 

[ArbeeNYC]

Cultural elements are always in flux. A tango teacher who was visiting mentioned that twenty years ago teaching women to lead felt novel and he got a ton of pushback on it, whereas today it is almost expected in his travels and reverse role classes are a pretty standard part of what he does. The recent snafu at el Beso shows that shift in the culture of social tango. Double roles or switching from one person leading to another following in a tanda is not taboo or frowned upon.

They are. Well, social morés change with the times. Some of those elements get introduced into tango because we want to be inclusive and expand. I still don't see the core features changing though. Bent knee or no bent knee, neither is a marker of anything but personal preference.

 

[ArbeeNYC]

I think current international milonga/event culture is just as much a distortion. Too sanitized and formal (and also commercialized.)

Could be. I'm not very familiar with it though. Is that the best way to expand the pool of tango dancers? (A side note: I have a tango acquaintance who travels a lot. He more or less stopped dancing locally because of the quality of the dance here and travels abroad to dance, mostly Europe. He's an experienced dancer. These aren't necessarily festivals though but local milongas in foreign cities.)

 

[ArbeeNYC]

I beg to differ. Sorry but that is a hog wash. Almost every social dances emanates from a culture. Tango doesn’t have a monopoly on it. Salsa or bachata have as much or more culture affinity attached to it including in present times despite their popularity. There are far more “salseros” than “milongueros”. Salseros as in those for whom salsa is a way of life.

I know. But I disagree. Argentina seems to feel it's part of their cultural heritage. So it's clearly more than a dance for them. I see no similarity with other dances.

 

[brujo]

I know. But I disagree. Argentina seems to feel it's part of their cultural heritage. So it's clearly more than a dance for them. I see no similarity with other dances.

Timba and Casino ( salsa ) to Cubans has the same vibe to me. You go to dance events and the Cubans definitively dance it differently. And it has a religious bit to it from the Orishas and rumba that is as profound as the European immigrant experience. And it also has the tourist element that tango does when you go to a place like Havana. Similarly Dominican bachata. Forró in Brazil. It’s not too clear to me what makes tango stand out differently than those.

 

[itwillhappen]

The main reason was that they just didn't feel welcome in the dance compared to others. Feelings of exclusion and alienation when attending a milonga vs one where people welcomed you, introduced you to people, asked you to dance, didn't leave you sitting out all night by yourself.

Partner dancing is predicated on the idea that you either bring a dance partner with you or find one there. Put another way, it comes down to whether you view the responsibility as resting with yourself or with others. Moreover, it is unlikely that "the others" are fundamentally different from oneself.

The idea that large numbers of people - particularly regarding women - actually like to dance chest-to-chest with strangers strikes me as rather bizarre. I have also read posts suggesting that, in the early days, prior to the "Milonguero" trend, rejections were significantly less common. Perhaps if people were to go back to hopping around one another at arm's length without much technique, the prevailing customs might change?

 

[Brummbaer]

Partner dancing is predicated on the idea that you either bring a dance partner with you or find one there. Put another way, it comes down to whether you view the responsibility as resting with yourself or with others. Moreover, it is unlikely that "the others" are fundamentally different from oneself.

The idea that large numbers of people - particularly regarding women - actually like to dance chest-to-chest with strangers strikes me as rather bizarre. I have also read posts suggesting that, in the early days, prior to the "Milonguero" trend, rejections were significantly less common. Perhaps if people were to go back to hopping around one another at arm's length without much technique, the prevailing customs might change?

Society, and the sub-culture of AT, has also changed.

Picking up your point

The idea that large numbers of people - particularly regarding women - actually like to dance chest-to-chest with strangers strikes me as rather bizarre

Yes, it was. It was initially 'perturbing', except with that SO, but it becomes normal and acceptable amongst friends and acquaintances (see also discussions on who we invite, whether they're 'known', and how). Tango culture gets to that being accepted - but still sometimes shocking to those who don't dance AT, or other dances requiring close hold.

Historically I suppose a 'close' hold was an objective amongst the unattached with aspirations beyond dance. Now it's become about the dance.

 

[brujo]

The idea that large numbers of people - particularly regarding women - actually like to dance chest-to-chest with strangers strikes me as rather bizarre. I have also read posts suggesting that, in the early days, prior to the "Milonguero" trend, rejections were significantly less common. Perhaps if people were to go back to hopping around one another at arm's length without much technique, the prevailing customs might change?

There are not large number of people but definitively a lot of them don’t mind. And definitively tons more than show up and stay in tango.

I go to events where people are welcoming and friendly and also dance closely or at least in a contact level similar to tango. The people there are fine being that close to strangers. Blues, bachata and micro fusion are some example of the dances. You can’t assume the unfriendliness of a dance comes from physical proximity.

In some like fusion they navigate this by being heavily verbally consent focused like asking permission if it is ok to get close. But in micro close embrace is more the norm than open. In others like bachata they just let the follow dictate the proximity desired.

My experience is that a ton of folks in the fusion community actually really like the technical bits of tango. It’s a great match. They already like the close connection. But very often they don’t go to the tango events due to the “coldness” of the people and cost. Similar story from blues friends.

Other dances that are also close are balboa, kizomba, forro. Their communities are super welcoming reputation wise…

 

[Warren J. Dew]

I know. But I disagree. Argentina seems to feel it's part of their cultural heritage. So it's clearly more than a dance for them. I see no similarity with other dances.

I wonder how much of this heritage is backfitted. I remember reading an article in the 1980s when the tango craze was taking hold in the US by a journalist who had gone to Argentina to experience the tango scene there. She found the scene, but most of the tango she found was International style (according to the men dancing with her, as she didn’t know the difference)..

 

[Brummbaer]

I wonder how much of this heritage is backfitted.

Good point! 1980's was mainly Argentine emigrés plying a dance trade abroad. You find similar in the London scene (a former teacher was an integral part of that). Argentina wasn't a great location with its dirty war (Guerra sucia) and military junta. AT revived after the fall of the junta in 1983.

2000+ is, I think, catalogued by Tango & Chaos. AT became a UNESCO 'Intangible Cultural Heritage' in 2009, so more has been found since.

I guess it's also a case that history is written by the victors. I'd agree that research of the past had added to the current scene by some. That's the true way it was done of old. That's the one true way now! Except the culture has evolved and moved on in some places.

For many it's just a dance, a hobby; others become consumed by the retro culture and retaining their view of it.

 

[Miradamiranda]

Isn't that biomechanics?

I imagined "deep connection" as something that goes beyond communication, something like empathy or telepathy

Really really really good communication, signalling, and reacting, so that it feels like telepathy.

Many people confuse connection with contact. Connection is not a style.

This refers to my preferred style which I described as having "a deep connection."

So, I’m getting back to my question how to help others develop the ability to communicate really really well.

IMO you’d still need to learn all the normal class-based vocabulary and technique so you can either signal or react to subtle cues. This way you are not ‘shouting’ to your partner and the subtlety - if executed well - gives the impression of reading each others’ minds.

So maybe teaching how to lead or follow specific moves with a range of shouting to whispering from the lead’s perspective, and the follower to be more attentive to subtlety instead of making assumptions and rushing into a move?

 

[TTanguero]

So maybe teaching how to lead or follow specific moves with a range of shouting to whispering from the lead’s perspective, and the follower to be more attentive to subtlety instead of making assumptions and rushing into a move?

Also, the leader being attentive to the follower in the same way. Not just for intentionally collaborative dance, but also for mistakes. Some of the best experiences I've had were when the follower did something different from what I thought I'd signalled, but I managed to follow her quickly enough that I'm 99.9% sure she had no idea that had been going on.