Reasons to give up Tango

[brujo]

All the Argentinians I know living outside of Argentina - except for those who came to make a living with teaching tango etc - have all learned outside of Argentina. Some friends of mine told me they were so often expected to dance just because they were Argentinian, that they thought they might as well learn it.

What I hear as well from Argentinians who danced extensively in places like Buenos Aires or foreigners that have trained there is that they won’t dance in their outside countries once they get there because the vibe is just so different.

 

[ArbeeNYC]

Tango hands down on each of above parameters. As music it is hugely popular in comparison to Tango. Tango shares rhythmic origins with Salsa (to an extent via habenara). They both evolved around the same time as a dance though what we call salsa changed and evolved a lot more than Tango. Salsa communities everywhere are much bigger. It is found in a lot more places in Europe and Asia, than tango is.

Numerically, salsa is, of course, far more popular. I don't really see any musical connection, however. I don't feel any Habanera in there either. I'm not sure what you mean about their evolution. AFAIK, salsa is largely a NYC product of its Puerto Rican community. As for salsa's global appeal, I have no idea. Tango is also global but its global community is quite small.

 

[ArbeeNYC]

On the contrary, Arbee, there are significantly more tango-free communities among Argentinians, at least in Europe.
It is only through the diaspora that these people are able to learn tango and even gain access to this part of their culture.

I don't think we can use Europe as an exemplar for Argentinian culture though. Maybe we should stick to Argentina itself, which is what I have been referring to.

 

[ArbeeNYC]

What I hear as well from Argentinians who danced extensively in places like Buenos Aires or foreigners that have trained there is that they won’t dance in their outside countries once they get there because the vibe is just so different.

Are you saying they'll only dance in B.A.?

 

[Bailango]

All the Argentinians I know living outside of Argentina - except for those who came to make a living with teaching tango etc - have all learned outside of Argentina. Some friends of mine told me they were so often expected to dance just because they were Argentinian, that they thought they might as well learn it.

I have like wise experience except they didn’t feel pressure to learn and don’t feel attracted to it just like any other person.

 

[opendoor]

I don't think we can use Europe as an exemplar for Argentinian culture though. Maybe we should stick to Argentina itself, which is what I have been referring to.

What I described for Europe and the diaspora applies even more strongly in Argentina. You simply have to accept it.

 

[Brummbaer]

I have like wise experience except they didn’t feel pressure to learn and don’t feel attracted to it just like any other person.

Rock 'n roll became more attractive for a younger generation. The 1955 coup, ousting General Péron, led to a dark age in Argentina - and for tango. Whilst overall tango wasn't 'banned', as it was a ready cover for groups of men meeting where, under cover of dancing, they might plot against the regime. Curfews and limiting numbers gathering took a toll.

Interestingly minors were banned from AT clubs (so learning was difficult), but not applied to rock 'n roll. So, to meet a girl, you now went to a club where rock 'n roll was played; you didn't learn tango.

Then we have the long years of the repressive regime. Tango artists and performers joined the diaspora to Europe and the US.

1983 - the regime falls. People wanted, amongst other things, to dance AT again. But there had been no real tradition of teaching AT as we know it now. So it had to be re-learned, including the teaching.

We then start to get AT marketing, from Argentina as well. It's something you can sell, earn money, and promote the country's culture and image. 2009 it becomes a UNESCO Intangible Cultural Heritage.

So, in other countries, people start to add their own perceptions and emphasis to the culture of AT. Admittedly they have some 'heritage' from an earlier era, but there's also evolution through those times. Did those young people use cabeceo/mirada and sit at tables for rock 'n roll? Maybe so.

There wasn't a 'pressure to learn' - it was, in essence, 'banned' and there was greater attraction to rock 'n roll - where you could meet other people

 

[itwillhappen]

While I am staunch critic of Tango community for its snobbishness, sense of misplaced elitism, and coldness, I am glad it is keeping the Fusionistas out.

And what would constitute "well-placed elitism"?
The participants are completely typical for their age group. Not every Northern European over 50 is actually looking for the vibe of a Latino party. But receiving plenty of personal attention and having good dance partners boosts the ego.

On this trip, I just visited a nice little milonga where strangers were immediately approached. You do have to make some compromises regarding the quality of the dancing, though. That said, my partner is quite happy at the encuentro now. But, in my opinion, the era of events designed to be unfriendly is over anyway.

 

[Brummbaer]

But, in my opinion, the era of events designed to be unfriendly is over anyway.

There's still plenty of 'influencers' promoting that - and responses. But it is probably changing, but to what?

 

[opendoor]

..While I am staunch critic of Tango community for its snobbishness, sense of misplaced elitism, and coldness, I am glad it is keeping the Fusionistas out...

I had to laugh, because you yourself have taken advantage of the snobbishness in this case, haven't you?

 

[brujo]

Are you saying they'll only dance in B.A.?

Or don’t dance tango at all and gravitate to other dances. Of course, anecdotal, but from three or four recent conversations with people that have either danced a long time in Buenos Aires and left or learned in Buenos Aires and feel a lot of the disconnect between our local scene and what they experienced there.

 

[itwillhappen]

Of course, anecdotal, but from three or four recent conversations with people that have either danced a long time in Buenos Aires and left or learned in Buenos Aires and feel a lot of the disconnect between our local scene and what they experienced there.

Maybe that constitutes "well-placed elitism"?

 

[brujo]

Not every Northern European over 50 is actually looking for the vibe of a Latino party.

Is that the tango demographic and population in Northern Europe?

A couple of my friends have commented that in places like Taiwan and South Korea the demographic is much much younger and there is a more enthusiastic and younger vibe.

In the US, I see that friction between younger folks with their more liberal attitudes kinda conflicting more with the more traditional roles in older social dances.

 

[ArbeeNYC]

Or don’t dance tango at all and gravitate to other dances. Of course, anecdotal, but from three or four recent conversations with people that have either danced a long time in Buenos Aires and left or learned in Buenos Aires and feel a lot of the disconnect between our local scene and what they experienced there.

I know someone, a tango acquaintance, who hardly ever dances locally any longer. But he goes to Europe rather than B.A.

 

[ArbeeNYC]

What I described for Europe and the diaspora applies even more strongly in Argentina. You simply have to accept it.

I don't think I do since the importance of tango to Argentina is far different than its importance to Europe. That much should be obvious. Not to mention the relative cultural importance in both places.