Reasons to quit [the] tango [forum]

tangonuevo said:
I am only an intermittent poster and am becoming an intermittent to non-existent lurker. For me, the problem is exactly that which is being specifically discussed in another current thread, and which is alluded to on several others. I dance with what I believe Miles may have referred to as a liquid style, or perhaps liquid connection. I dance CE, open, Doble Frente, whatever. All of the discussion about right and wrong, and how this or that is a public relations plot by instructors, or those about the whirling young men in the middle of the floor and the geriatric walkers on the edge, grow so old.

And I certainly don't bother to bring up certain topics that interest me but might be viewed as heretical. For example, I DJ, and one of my gigs is alternative. I don't like alternative music, but DJ it because the organizer requests it. I wouldn't mind tapping the collective regarding opinions on various bits of music, but suspect the thread would degenerate into negativism.
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tangonuevo, I feel very sympathetic towards you. Hang in there, and hopefully you'll stay... :)
 
Zoopsia59 said:
Thanks Fascination.

The rule I try to use (and am not always succesful on) is : Respond to POSTS not to POSTERS. ie: to Content, not people.

(unless its DChester... then I'm going to slam him every chance I get! :p I don't know why... I've never even met him.. :rolleyes: )

I will say though that there definitly seems to be a bias here in the AT forum against those whose opinion is unpopular. And the definition of being "ugly" about it doesn't seem all that well defined. Is being strident being ugly? Is being insistent being ugly? Or does one have to actually be insulting to other members to be ugly? Is it ugly to be completely inflexible in one's opinion or to state an unpopular one often enough that its tiresome to others who disagree even though there is no direct insult? Is it ugly to make a snide comment about another poster whose posts you don't like? Who is really the one in violation? The one with the tiresome oft repeated unpopular opinion, or the one who says something about them (not to them) personally in response?

This is really just a rhetorical paragraph... but I wanted to point out that what you say in the above quote about it being ok to post what we want, even if unpopular, does not feel to me to be the way of the AT forum. There seems to be quite a movement to shut down unpopular opinions.

Just my take on things... aka: my opinion.... ;)
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f said:
I know that this was rhetorical...and I think, since you have started a new thread on the topic you wish to discuss, we can probably let this thread diminish...but I do want to say something about your concerns...I can only speak for myself as a mod to assure you that when something gets heated, I try to get in touch with all parties...this is not always visible...and I may come into a heated thread at a particular moment and post at a particular moment that may look like I am calling only one person out...but, as a general rule, when I take note that things are going south, even if I have quoted a particular poster, it is a note to everyone...and if I do it via pm, I tend to notify all parties....and often I will do it as we are heading in a bad direction, not when it is so far gone that it can't be cooled off....which is why you may feel you are put on notice for something you feel is still fairly benign...we may just be saying "please watch it, you are moving in a direction that usually causes us heap big trouble"....we make the best calls we can...no matter how clear our guidelines, applying situations to them will always be somewhat murky for us and we do try to be impartial....that is my general view...as to specific instances, that I won't discuss in the public forum but can always be taken to the staff mailbox...thanks...
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Zoopsia59 said:
Thanks Fascination.

The rule I try to use (and am not always succesful on) is : Respond to POSTS not to POSTERS. ie: to Content, not people.

(unless its DChester... then I'm going to slam him every chance I get! :p I don't know why... I've never even met him.. :rolleyes: )

I will say though that there definitly seems to be a bias here in the AT forum against those whose opinion is unpopular. And the definition of being "ugly" about it doesn't seem all that well defined. Is being strident being ugly? Is being insistent being ugly? Or does one have to actually be insulting to other members to be ugly? Is it ugly to be completely inflexible in one's opinion or to state an unpopular one often enough that its tiresome to others who disagree even though there is no direct insult? Is it ugly to make a snide comment about another poster whose posts you don't like? Who is really the one in violation? The one with the tiresome oft repeated unpopular opinion, or the one who says something about them (not to them) personally in response?

This is really just a rhetorical paragraph... but I wanted to point out that what you say in the above quote about it being ok to post what we want, even if unpopular, does not feel to me to be the way of the AT forum. There seems to be quite a movement to shut down unpopular opinions.

Just my take on things... aka: my opinion.... ;)
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I've been thinking a lot about what you've posted here.

In general, I agree with you. However... (There's always a "however," innit? LOL.)

IMO, unpopular opinions are one thing. Being unyielding in that opinion is one thing. Being strident in that opinion is one thing. Generally speaking, I'm fine with this. Oh, sure, I get riled up, but fundamentally I have no problem with it. I like a good debate, I like a good argument, and I get riled pretty easily.

However... What I have seen in the last year or so is a fundamental change in the atmosphere around here, which seemed to shift with an influx of new members (always good) who were not only strident and unyielding with their unpopular opinions, but who took that a step further with ad hominem attacks, snarky sarcasm (not in jest), and a propensity to declare anything that didn't fit their definition as "wrong." Two of the three lines in my signature are direct quotes. THAT I have a problem with. A big one. THAT is not in keeping with what had been a rather good-natured spirit of discussion which had prevailed on this thread.

I will admit that since that time I have become quite jaded. Yeah, the same discussions come up again and again. Yawn, but shrug. Yeah, I know I go off on the same detailed music theory discussions from time to time, which I realize annoy other people. (I'd work on reining it in, but keep reading.) And...likewise...I have learned that some people are not going to contribute to any discussion other than to tear down that which they do not like. Teachers' knowledge and integrity will be attacked, either explicitly or quasi-implicitly, without any first-hand knowledge of the teaching methods. (Something, I might add, is kind of in violation of D-F guidelines.) After some time of this...yeah, I freely admit that I respond to the person instead of the post. And I don't feel bad about this. I'm not going to keep giving the benefit of the doubt, when I've been shown time and again that some people don't seem remotely interested in having a civil discussion.

Now...OTOH...I realize that this does not contribute in a useful way to this forum. It does not help to make this forum anything like what it used to be, and what I wish it would continue to be. I also realize that this is not the best side of myself; I'm not proud, but there it is. So...I'm just...done, for the most part. Just too jaded. I just don't care any more. If/when it looks like there's a useful and respectful discussion going on, I'm happy to contribute. But, since it seems like so much of it is not any more, I'm just beyond caring or bothering to change it. IMO, the posters have gotten in the way of their own posts.

I'm sure the same thing could be said of me. That's fine. Like I said, I don't care any more.

*shrug*
 
Seems to me the same fishermen are trolling for an argument (not debate). And the same fish can't resist the bait.

Put another way, the button pushers know which buttons to push to begin the same inflamed discussions.
 
DerekWeb said:
Seems to me the same fishermen are trolling for an argument (not debate). And the same fish can't resist the bait.

Put another way, the button pushers know which buttons to push to begin the same inflamed discussions.
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That could well be part of it. And I realize that I'm not good at refusing the bait. Best just to remove myself entirely.
 
Thank you all for your kind words. I will say that for me the prime issue is less about any attacks or rudeness or even negativity. It is more about the predictable tiresomeness of much of what transpires.

But again, I thank you and I will indeed carry on.

TN
 
Glad to hear it TN.
Most often I just sit back and see where things are headed. Sometimes I log off and I leave with my fingers crossed that things won't go the wrong way.
And WAY more often than not, they don't.
(Some times they do and someone else catches it first.)
I've always argued that we have many really good people here. And I mean Good in more than one sense.
It's been great reading everyone's thoughts on our community, the forum, and even the self evaluations. It proves to me that most of you understand how communities work and the fact that things aren't always perfect.
Many of you have written about how thing used to be. Well, one thing is that we have a lot more people now, and frequently have several active threads going on at once.
How's this for a philosophy at this point?
Give what you can. Take what works for you. And leave the rest.
 
Steve Pastor said:
Glad to hear it TN.
Most often I just sit back and see where things are headed. Sometimes I log off and I leave with my fingers crossed that things won't go the wrong way.
And WAY more often than not, they don't.
(Some times they do and someone else catches it first.)
I've always argued that we have many really good people here. And I mean Good in more than one sense.
It's been great reading everyone's thoughts on our community, the forum, and even the self evaluations. It proves to me that most of you understand how communities work and the fact that things aren't always perfect.
Many of you have written about how thing used to be. Well, one thing is that we have a lot more people now, and frequently have several active threads going on at once.
How's this for a philosophy at this point?
Give what you can. Take what works for you. And leave the rest.
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I think this calls for a great big group hug! *



*this is a party drink I invented that is made by emptying the liquor cabinet into a pitcher, and then adding whatever juices are in the fridge to taste. Juice is optional **


**as is the pitcher
 
gregolam said:
I think this calls for a great big group hug! *

*this is a party drink I invented that is made by emptying the liquor cabinet into a pitcher, and then adding whatever juices are in the fridge to taste. Juice is optional **

**as is the pitcher
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What, no olives, strawberries, orange slices, chocolate, maté?
 
ooo- ick- I'm not sure why but this is all reminding me of the sake I drank at the milonga at the beach over the weekend.... =O
 
Peaches said:
Best just to remove myself entirely.
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Don't you dare!

As mod, I am not as lenient as it appears. I PM offenders quite quickly; and, have often been accused of not being... "angelic..." about it. However, I do allow a lot of latitude on the public side 1- b/c I want to see if the offensive poster heeds the PM, and 2- I want to see if we, as adults, can get past it w/o mod-ification.

FTR, I, too, would be very pleased to see the AT forum get back to discussing real issues, even the just-for-ones, and move away from the likes of style/terminology/vocabulary/personal taste bicker. On the positive side, this is a good start. Thanks, TN.
 
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