Regional Preferances

F

FlippySmith

New Member
Hi All,

It's my first post so wish me luck.

I'm a syllabus dancer from New York. I'm very interested in the logistics of the ballroom competition scene.

I feel that my partner and I do less well, even against the same pool of dancers, in other regions of the country when we travel to a competition. For example, we traveled to Chicago for the regional. One of the judges who was from the New York area consistently gave us higher marks or recalls when others did not. There are other minor examples, but I'm just trying to see if people see this as an actual occurrence. Additionally, dancers from that region typically tend to place better. Now I'm not complaining about fairness, I am just trying to understand some of the reasons for this so I can become an all around better dancer. I'm not accusing anyone of playing favorites.

My assumption is that in a given region or group, the instructors value traits X, Y, and Z. So when they teach, they concentrate on X, Y, and Z. Then when they go to judge, they also have a tendency to value those traits whereas someone from another area's teacher may have concentrated on A, B, and C.

A.) Do other people see this as actually happening?

And since we do have people from all over the world reading (Maybe?)
B.) What do you feel are some of the traits particularly valued in your area?

Thanks
 
Were most of the judges at the Chicago event from the Chicago Area? I know with the regional FA events we have here in Chicago, we very rarely have any local judges. Jack judged once (he was actually planned as judge, as far as I know), and Jesse Desoto judged part of this last comp (but that's because Elena Grinenko, who was suppsoed to be judge, wasn't feeling well, and she went up to rest before she and tony did pro-show). But besides those occasions, i can't think of any local judges. Judges have been from NJ, NY, Canada, among other places, but very rarely anyone local. This may be the exception, rather than the rule, and certainly not doubting your evaluation (actually really curious as to how this thread goes, and whether certain traits really are valued differently in different regions).
 
I should clarify more. I mainly compete in college competitions in the NE region. Another particular example is that we seem to do much less well in competitions held in Boston. Discounting favoritism, I am assuming another reason for such a great disparity.
 
Ah, ok, I don't know much about collegiate circuit. But still interested in seeing where this goes. :)
 
Yes there tends to be regional differences in what judges look for/coaches teach. Nothing sinister.

And within a region of course there's always some judges who buck the local trend.

For instance (and I'm a little out of touch these past few years for Boston v NYC collegiate comps) historically the NYC coaches wanted to see much more "dynamicism","light/shade","emotion" in the dancing. While the Boston coaches tended to watch for more grounding/connection. (Of course neither wants one at the expense of the other, but when having to make a choice in judging..) (This was for latin).... For standard, I seem to recall the matra of NYC=topline, Boston = footwork, with one or two judges bucking the trend and being all about bodyflight from both regions.
 
You also need to look at who you were competing against. You say you mostly do collegiate comps in the North East. Then you go to a USA Dance comp in Chicago. Were you competing mostly against college students there, or against post-collegiate adults who may have been spending more time on each syllabus level and therefore have more experience? It seems to me that most collegiate students get through the syllabus levels in their three or four years on their college team, whereas adults seem to split into two groups: those who spend years on the syllabus, and those who jump to Open after doing Silver. Depending on who is at a particular comp, you might be dancing against couples with a LOT of syllabus experience compared to you.
 
Welcome to DF Flippy!

I'm not sure how much emphasis varies from region to region but it does vary from judge to judge. And the potential of having a different judging panel probably increases as you move outside of your region/

Typically in any level of dancing below the most elite level there is enough wrong with each couple that depending on a judges preference you can get quite a bit of variance in placing.

Just among coaches in our area who judge, I've had them share with me things like, "First I look at __________ (feet, topline, connection), if that's bad I don't even bother to look at anything else." Both judges who have said this put different things in the blank.

Your job as a competitive dancer is to improve your dancing to the point where all aspects of your dancing (connection, footwork, topline, dynamics) are at levels that justify higher marks.
 
Another thing to factor in is familiarity. At a subconscious level, a judge would seem to be more likely to notice someone they've seen before moreso than someone they haven't. Call it an unintentional bias for the familiar.
 
Welcome to Dance Forums FlippySmith!

I have to hand it to you - you're pretty aware and articulate. Congratulations on not going over the deep end in wondering about the judging - yet inquiring.

Which styles are you dancing?

We have heard of differences in preference in Standard based on when a judge competed and their lineage, but I believe these would have little affect in syllabus.

In Smooth, there are differences in emphasis on speed/power and style - but again, I believe these would not make much of an impact at the syllabus level.

Since you have a good attitude - you'll be fine.

As competitors, we get to address the array of evaluators preferences (and it would be boring if everything were in a neat little box - like memorizing something for a test).
 
White Chacha said:
Another thing to factor in is familiarity. At a subconscious level, a judge would seem to be more likely to notice someone they've seen before moreso than someone they haven't. Call it an unintentional bias for the familiar.
Click to expand...

i totally agree. while us actually improving definitely is a factor, familiarity is also a part, because it adds a degree of noticeability (is this even a word? :P), however small. i know there are a couple judges that have been at many of our competitions whose marks for us increase the more they judge us.
to be fair, these judges are the ones we ask advice from after the competition. the fact that we know Judge X has a certain pet peeve, or Judge Y looks first at a certain factor and work on those things certainly helps. but again, asking for tips, i feel, adds to your familiarity with that judge.
 
Even given what I've said, there are a pair of local judges (at collegiates) who consistently give me objective, and somewhat lower placements than most others. It is them who I go to for good critical feedback. One is a former teacher of mine and the other has never taught me but has seen me around the circuit. Hearing their critiques this past spring really helped me focus on what to work on next!

I guess what I'm saying is to look at critique as an opportunity :-)
 
I am currently dancing Standard, Smooth and Latin, though whether or not I get one callback in the first round of Latin or not can hardly be struck up to regional stylistic preferences. Ever since my first few competitions, I became very interested in the scoring/judging system and have since read up on scrutineering and become a judges marks junkie.
 
FlippySmith said:
Ever since my first few competitions, I became very interested in the scoring/judging system and have since read up on scrutineering and become a judges marks junkie.
Click to expand...
Its amazing what can be found in data - tell us more as you dig in
 
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