Rejections

edit to add: after posting the below, i realized that my comments are not based on experience in the AT community, which i know is a different beast when it comes to choosing partners, due to the intimate nature of the dance. so...my comments may be competely irrelevant...

dang... if you haven't already conveyed your ability to harm me in some way, i'm gonna say yes. i refuse to make this more complicated than Ask-Dance-Or Don't Dance.

am trying to think when i've been rejected... can't remember a time, unless it's because they were already promised to someone else. but who cares if i'm rejected? i don't...whatever....move on. maybe i don't get rejected because i don't load my asking with a host of rules and conditions? maybe i don't get rejected because i pay attention to who's receptive and don't invade someone who's not?

i really do think this becomes much ado about nothing only in the minds of dancers who are inclined to create some personal drama for themselves out of their own inner complications.

"don't worry, be happy" goes a long way in the social dancing world...
 
DB said:
Really? No-one ever gets rejected or upset in BsAs then?
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jantango said:
To Dave Bailey who asked the questions:
If you used the cabeceo, you would know the answer to the first question.
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I can't quite see how using the cabaceo would answer the question of whether people get upset or rejected in BsAs. It seems likely to me that they do get upset by rejection, but the system enables the offer and the rejection to be hidden, thus saving face. That might make it a bit less humiliating but would surely still be felt as an opportunity denied. It just seems to me that personal feelings have to be ignored or swept under the carpet by the cabeceo system.

So, have you ever known of a friend or aqcuaintance to be upset by a discreet rejection in BsAs? Is it talked of between friends, as it certainly would be at a UK milonga?
 
samina said:
maybe i don't get rejected because i don't load my asking with a host of rules and conditions? maybe i don't get rejected because i pay attention to who's receptive and don't invade someone who's not?
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Maybe you don't get rejected because, as a Dance Deity, you are the one sought after for dances, and partners count themselves lucky to get to dance with you! ;)
 
It's like life. You have to learn to let things roll off your back and not take it personally, because it isn't personal. You don't always get what you want when you want it in life, and it's the same in the milongas. Patience is a lesson to be learned.
 
jantango said:
It's like life. You have to learn to let things roll off your back and not take it personally, because it isn't personal. You don't always get what you want when you want it in life, and it's the same in the milongas. Patience is a lesson to be learned.
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Yes! So very true.
 
I wonder, anybody else considers avoiding the eye contact with a person who you don't want to dance with, rude? Because, seriously, that is the first time I hear such a feedback.
I thought, it would be the contrary, because it sends a clear signal, allows both parties not to be put on the spot and save their faces.
 
Lilly_of_the_valley said:
I wonder, anybody else considers avoiding the eye contact with a person who you don't want to dance with, rude? Because, seriously, that is the first time I hear such a feedback.
I thought, it would be the contrary, because it sends a clear signal, allows both parties not to be put on the spot and save their faces.[/quote

I'm not the 'else' you are polling but this is a small community 30-35 dancers total on a good night. We ask each other--that's what we do. If there are divides in the community based upon who is taking lessons from whom--as I know there are here-- then politeness should still emerge over outright rejection. And yes I do pay attention to who is available versus who has other intentions.
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welcome to DF, vade mecum!

(fwiw, vademecum is my fave fluoride-free toothpaste from sweden... :D)
 
samina said:
edit to add: after posting the below, i realized that my comments are not based on experience in the AT community, which i know is a different beast when it comes to choosing partners, due to the intimate nature of the dance. so...my comments may be competely irrelevant...

dang... if you haven't already conveyed your ability to harm me in some way, i'm gonna say yes. i refuse to make this more complicated than Ask-Dance-Or Don't Dance.

am trying to think when i've been rejected... can't remember a time, unless it's because they were already promised to someone else. but who cares if i'm rejected? i don't...whatever....move on. maybe i don't get rejected because i don't load my asking with a host of rules and conditions? maybe i don't get rejected because i pay attention to who's receptive and don't invade someone who's not? (bolded by GssH)

i really do think this becomes much ado about nothing only in the minds of dancers who are inclined to create some personal drama for themselves out of their own inner complications.

"don't worry, be happy" goes a long way in the social dancing world...
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Nah, your comments are perfectly relevant. It actually points to the heart of things:

All these "rules and regulations" are just guidelines that are supposed to help figuring out who is receptive or not. Like the cabeco: Yes, if you make eye contact with a girl, and she smiles and nods, you are good to go. Which is exactly how i figure out who to talk with at a party, or if one of my friends wants anothe beer, or if we should get soem icecream from the vendor we jsut walked by in the park. Or the rule that if a woman sits next to a man she might be on a date, and it is better to assume that they don't want people to butt in. Thats true for bars, and parties, and even in situations where people are usually assumed to go to socialize it can be quite uncomfortable if one misjudges that, so better be on the safe side.

It is like the old story where Rabbi Hillel is challenged to explain the whole torah wile standing one leg. He says "Do not do unto your neighbor what you don't want to have done onto you - thats it ; the rest is commentary". And for tango (life?) the rule is "don't make people uncomfortable", the rules are just commentary.

It is kinda sad that these ideas have in some cases become reified to such an extent that they can be used as petty weapons to make people uncomfortable and unhappy, instead of ensuring that everybody is comfortable and relaxed.

It is of course easier to point people to rules and to follow rules oneself than to constantly negotiate what might be ok with a particular person at a particular timepoint, but that is a bit like beginning leaders getting hung up on learning figures - the figures help to study and understand the dance, they are not the dance, and part of becoming a better dancer is to learn how and when to modify them, and how to make up ones own figures, and how to finally forget all about them and just dance. I have met a few gracious people who just make people comfortable around them, transcending manners and rules and regulations, but they are even rarer than the dancers that have transcendend the 8CB.

Gssh
 
Lilly_of_the_valley said:
Says who?
Perhaps, it's not like they meant to be rude, but the other instructor they are going to suddenly started teaching codigos...;)
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Quite possible. A couple of hours on this board and I'm already feeling like a vet who needs an education still. To my problem, I think I'll just work on nodding inquiringly and mouthing the word "Vamos" and see who actually vamoses.
 
vade mecum said:
Quite possible. A couple of hours on this board and I'm already feeling like a vet who needs an education still. To my problem, I think I'll just work on nodding inquiringly and mouthing the word "Vamos" and see who actually vamoses.
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that would surely be enuf for me. :D

i guess that's what i mean by so many rules. in the end, it's a simple thing really, and i always seem to get back to the feeling that we needlessly complicate so many aspects of the dance experience.
 
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