Rise on the cross??

[AndaBien]

We're taught to rise a little as we lead the pre-cross (with an inhilation), then sink a little (with an exhalation) as the woman moves her foot back into the cross - if we want her to transfer weight to that foot (as per other thread). ....

IMO, trying to lead with ones breath is way off target. It seems like more of a signal than a lead. I want to lead with the movement of my body. What happens if I breath at some other point?

The only thing one needs to know about breathing is to keep doing it.

 

[Mladenac]

In leading into a cross I was taught that movement has a smaller impulse.
So that additional rotation and impulse should be a sign that I am leading a cross.
In addition musicality should be taken care of when to lead a cross.

I tend to do the cross on the stronger beat than other (stronger impulse involved) and exit on falling melody.

 

[v22TTC]

IMO, trying to lead with ones breath is way off target. It seems like more of a signal than a lead. I want to lead with the movement of my body. What happens if I breath at some other point?

The only thing one needs to know about breathing is to keep doing it.

No, you can only breathe in the cross - our dances tend to involve lots of crosses, for some reason....

Nah - it's a more pronounced and intentional ('mindful') breath - like Tai Chi breathing: breathe in lifts the upper body, breathe out lowers it... pretty standard and 'natural' stuff... though it's kind of optional to the lead, in a kind of 'if you want 'great technique'' kind of way (done this way).

But yeah, it is extra bells and whistles that I kind of resent having to use... but most of the people in our tiny scene have been taught by the same folks - who do this - so it really is necessary for success (with nearly every follower)....

 

[Mladenac]

breathing while dancing

I saw a great movie "El Otro Camino - Tango con Rodolfo Mederos"
And Rodolfo was talking about bandoneon as lungs or sth like that.

Not knowing of that I tend to breath according to the melody.

So involuntary I tend to exhale when exiting the cross.

 

[v22TTC]

breathing while dancing

I saw a great movie "El Otro Camino - Tango con Rodolfo Mederos"
And Rodolfo was talking about bandoneon as lungs or sth like that.

Not knowing of that I tend to breath according to the melody.

So involuntary I tend to exhale when exiting the cross.

Aye, isn't the Lunfardo for 'bandoneón' 'fuelle' (bellows)?

 

[Mladenac]

Aye, isn't the Lunfardo for 'bandoneón' 'fuelle' (bellows)?

yes it is, according to this page:
http://new.taringa.net/posts/info/3264609/Diccionario-Lunfardo-Espanol.html

 

[bordertangoman]

IMO, trying to lead with ones breath is way off target. It seems like more of a signal than a lead. I want to lead with the movement of my body. What happens if I breath at some other point?

The only thing one needs to know about breathing is to keep doing it.

:lol: but I agree with the sentiment; this isnt tai chi after all.

 

[bordertangoman]

Thank you for all your replies;
as DB says it isnt necessary; if the leader can cross his steps with no up and down motion then the more graceful of the species ought to be able to do the same.

I can see a rise by the leader might initiate a rise in the follower, but if she does it alone its habit, and a bad one.

On Breathing: the breath to lead is a possibility but its practicality in a real time dance situation is fairly limited in my experience. Tai chi has a form which revolves around the breath; tango does not; you are going to hyperventilate every time you dance to something quick! In normal everyday walking I would average a inbreath and out-breath about every four or five steps. ( And the aim with a follower is to take her breath away! )

 

[Dave Bailey]

IMO, trying to lead with ones breath is way off target. It seems like more of a signal than a lead. I want to lead with the movement of my body. What happens if I breath at some other point?

It's not so much the act of breathing - it's an emphasis, using your breath to move your chest to, yes, signal to the partner that Something Is Happening.

I think it's also helpful to take a deep breath in just before starting out dancing - that also works quite well as a signal.

 

[Peaches]

I think it's also helpful to take a deep breath in just before starting out dancing - that also works quite well as a signal.

I don't know what it's signalling, but I find a deep breath while in the embrace (sort of in that initial stand there and get in sync phase) is a great way of centering myself and focusing on my partner. If I feel him doing it, I will match my deep breath to his, and that feel very connecting.

 

[Zoopsia59]

I think it's also helpful to take a deep breath in just before starting out dancing - that also works quite well as a signal.

That's pretty much the only time I've heard of it (or felt it) done deliberately. An inhale before movement starts and an exhale for the first step. After that, we're just breathin' to avoid passing out.

 

[AndaBien]

That's pretty much the only time I've heard of it (or felt it) done deliberately. An inhale before movement starts and an exhale for the first step. After that, we're just breathin' to avoid passing out.

Actually, there are times when I take a breath just for effect, but it's not a lead or indication. Sometimes I like to just walk straight on with my partner and take a deep inhalation and exhalation while I do it. Other times, after a series of quick or complicated movements, I'll just come to a full stop and take a deep breath for my partner. It usually gets her to take a deep breath also.

I only do breaths like this with partners who I feel somewhat familiar and comfortable with. Doing it with the wrong partner might make her feel a little creepy.

 

[JohnEm]

It's not so much the act of breathing - it's an emphasis,
using your breath to move your chest to, yes, signal to the partner
that Something Is Happening.

It's a signal alright - yep, you're alive and well.

More seriously:
I was taught and still practise that a slight lift of the torso and/or the right
arm indicates a collect - in other words a pause. Maintain that lift and
weight changes shouldn't be mistaken for sidesteps. It's subtle, invisible
to watchers but necessary if you subscribe to the view that everything
is lead. How you do the lift of course is personal and could indeed include
an inhalation to help lift simultaneously but it isn't necessary and you are
asking a lot of yourself. Best not to contrive it and just be natural.

Then a cross becomes an anti-clockwise rotation with more lift to indicate
that the free leg is intended to cross over. I've been stopped by one partner
from doing it so with some followers it works and some it doesn't.
It depends on what she has been taught I suppose.

Going back to another recent thread having lifted you now can indicate timing,
or even delay, the weight change and it really works with a responsive partner.

Please note that I've avoided the use of the word "rise". Rise to me in dancing
is rising from a flat grounded foot onto the balls of your feet which is
a very different thing. As BTM commented there is no up and down motion.

 

[Zoopsia59]

I was taught and still practise that a slight lift of the torso and/or the right
arm indicates a collect - in other words a pause.

Every teacher I've had teaches that the follower (and the leader too actually) should collect between steps as part of proper weight transfer technique. I've never heard that the leader needs to do anything to indicate to the follower to collect

The exception has been in the more neo/nuevo/alternative open embrace styling when the free leg might sweep more and come to neutral less. But the leaders who dance that style use other means to lead a cross besides lifting, so I suppose a lift for some of them might mean they want the follower to collect faster and get the free leg motion tight. I just haven't experienced that.

I certainly never equate collect with pause. I most likely collect in a pause, but I certainly don't ONLY collect when pausing. I collect between every step that isn't led to prevent it. Even if I am doing a more fluid nuevo'ish styling and allowing for a sweeping motion, the leg comes through collect as part of it's sweep.

 

[JohnEm]

Every teacher I've had teaches that the follower (and the leader too actually) should collect between steps as part of proper weight transfer technique. I've never heard that the leader needs to do anything to indicate to the follower to collect

Err . . . that's why I've posted it here.
You make your own choice though.

And yes, collecting is part of the dance for men and women,
though most men it seems should do it more. A weight change isn't
automatic. I can pause without a weight change and weight change
without movement. I'd guess that every leader can tell you of
instances when his weight change has been misinterpreted as
a side step but an upward intent makes it clear to stay put.
Release the upward intent as part of the sidestep.

I certainly never equate collect with pause. I most likely collect in a pause, but I certainly don't ONLY collect when pausing. I collect between every step that isn't led to prevent it.

I'm not sure I indicated that so I agree and the upward intent
doesn't conflict with natural collecting even in a through step.

In fact to continue I was also taught to provide a downward intent
to indicate a pause with the legs apart, for instance if the ocho
cortado is halted in the sidestep. That isn't quite so comfortable.

The point I suppose is that the lead needn't be two dimensional,
there is a third vertical dimension possible.