Rules For Leaders

[snapdancer]

I recall a post from back in the ancient days when social media was usenet and discussions like those on this forum happened on rec.arts.dance before the spammers got in and ruined it.

Anyway, the post on r.a.d I recall gave the following 3 rules of following:

1. Don't hold on.
2. Don't let go.
3. Don't think.

Before I get a lot of criticism about #3, it's not my list. And I think it would be better worded as "Don't assume." But over the years developing my dancing in swing and then ballroom, I've found it to be quite true. I suspect that in many cases violations of rule #2 result from rule #3.

I thought that there should be a similar set of rules for leaders. Succinct rules that may be counter-intuitive to a newby but necessary. My proposed rule set is:

1. Protect your partner. (Don't dance her into the furniture or other couples.)
2. Lead with body, not with your hands.
3. You have to follow your partner, too (part of the time).

Your thoughts? Any better rules? Better statements?

 

[fascination]

I would revise number two and make it number one in this way; 1) lead with your body, not your hands, but keep your hands connected to your center or it won't be much better...

as for your number 1, I think most guys worry about this way more than women.... and newbs tend to be more paralyzed by this than it merits.... women aren't china dolls...you do your best.... I doubt it is in the top three for most women..certainly no one wants to be rammed into a wall, but I think we can give the benefit of the doubt on that one....I think that my number one (which includes; please don't shove me around because I am not going where you intend) is the biggie...my number two would be; "if you lead late and indecisively, I WILL be on the wrong foot so have a plan B, lead on time, or, at the very least don't start telling me what I missed"...and therefore, along those lines, my number three would be; "unless your lead is perfect please don't criticize me for incorrectly guessing what it was (your pro does it well with you because she knows what she taught you)...if I had to guess or think it was because your signals aren't clear enough to trust...I'll leave my mind at home if you can convince me that I don't need that part of it".

 

[snapdancer]

Fasc, I think this is good stuff. Part of what I wanted was to keep the initial rule statement succinct to get the newby's attention and get them to start thinking. When their initial reaction is , then you expound on the rules.

Along those lines perhaps we could make

my number two would be; "if you lead late and indecisively, I WILL be on the wrong foot so have a plan B, lead on time, or, at the very least don't start telling me what I missed...

something like: "If your partner screwed up, it's because you screwed up first." Eh, probably could come up with something better than that.

 

[fascination]

how about; lead on time (which is before it's too late)

 

[fascination]

1) lead with your body, keep your arms connected to it
2) lead on time or suffer the consequences
3) don't blame or judge... you are only in posession of half of the truth

 

[snapdancer]

After thinking about it, here's a succincter (?word?) list:
1. Protect the lady.
2. Don't lead with your arms
3. It's probably your fault.

Again, looking for simple statements to get someone's attention and start the conversation. When the newby leader goes "Huh?", you explain it with the longer statements.

My new #3 encompasses Fascination's latest #2 & #3. But then when you tell a guy rule #3 (at least any guy who's ever been in a relationship), he'll probably say "OK. Now tell me something new."

 

[fascination]

for the record, I would never endorse a rule that says; it's probably your fault...no one is ever much motivated or rises to their best self when hearing that...regardless of the times when it happens to apply

 

[fascination]

and again, I am also no fan of protect the lady...newbs are rarely capable of that anyhow...but...lolz...it's your list

 

[Subliminal]

I thought that there should be a similar set of rules for leaders. Succinct rules that may be counter-intuitive to a newby but necessary. My proposed rule set is:

1. Protect your partner. (Don't dance her into the furniture or other couples.)
2. Lead with body, not with your hands.
3. You have to follow your partner, too (part of the time).

Your thoughts? Any better rules? Better statements?

I get your intent here, but I think some of it is confusing language. 1 is ok. I would phrase 2 and 3 like this:

2. Lead with your entire body, not just with your arms. The lead originates in the center.
3. Lead strongly and without hesitation, then follow and support your partner to where she goes.

 

[Spitfire]

This is from a newsletter I receive...

TIPS FOR THE GUYS

Master the Craft. Concentrate on the basics of the dance or dances you
would like to learn. A master in dancing, like in Martial Arts, is someone
who practices a few basic moves a thousand times - not someone who
practices a thousand moves a few times.

Become a good leader. Assume 100% responsibility for the outcome of
your leading. Leading is making your intention so clear to the lady that
there is no doubt in her mind as to what you want her to do. If she can
not follow a pattern, either you did not lead it well, or it was a pattern she
would need to know before being able to follow it - - - so, drop it.
A void the desire to teach her (particularly in the middle of the floor).
Your unsolicited teaching will feel condescending and humiliating to her.

Establish Connection. In order to lead someone you first need to establish
a connection with that person. Without connection any attempt to lead will
feel abrupt and unsettling. In order to establish connection with another person,
you first need to be connected within yourself. The best way to develop your
inner connection is by consciously focusing on your core area (one inch above
your waist line to one inch below).

Recommended Dance Tips to Read From Our Past Issues:

· How to Become a Great Leader on the Dance Floor
· How to Avoid Dancer's Block

TIPS FOR THE LADIES

A common complaint from ladies in most dance communities is that there are
not enough men to dance with. Ladies, you have a tremendous influence in the
number of men dancers in your community.

You need to become aware of the courage required for most men to become
involved in a skill they don't feel comfortable with - dancing can be terrifying
for even the most confident men. The most important thing you can do is make
them feel more at ease and appreciated.

Be Proactive. First, take lessons and become a good dancer yourself. Participate
in classes and dance parties.

Develop your Connection. In order to establish connection with another person,
you first need to be connected within yourself. The best w ay to develop your
inner connection is by consciously focusing on your core area (one inch above
your waist line to one inch below).

Learn How to Follow. Learn to distinguish between intention and movement.
Do not move when you feel the man's intention, wait until you feel his movement.
(read tip on becoming a good follower).

Be Nice. Be friendly and complimentary to all men who ask you to dance.
Be particularly encouraging and complimentary to men just starting out -
you may be helping them stick around long enough to become very good
dancers and they will always remember you.

Recommended Dance Tips to Read From Our Past Issues:

· How to Become a Good Follower on the Dance Floor
· Motivating a Reluctant Partner to Dance

Ladies and Gentlemen, follow the above guidelines and each of you can become
a very popular dancer. You will have plenty of dance partners looking forward to
sharing dances with you and you will have a lot of fun with your dancing and your
partners.

 

[dancingirldancing]

I hate it when my partner tried to protect me. I might sound nasty to other people however my opinion is if you can do your job right I can fend off for myself just as well.

Not running one's partner to a chair or to other couples to me is NOT equal to protecting them as much as not punching your wife equal to protecting your family. It is just the done thing.

 

[rbazsz]

After thinking about it, here's a succincter (?word?) list:
1. Protect the lady.
2. Don't lead with your arms
3. It's probably your fault.

Since getting married I have learned that #3 should be "always your fault".

In dancing I might modify that to be: "always your fault unless your instructor says otherwise". :nope:

Note: I don't dance with my wife, however my modified rule applies whenever the female gender is involved. Guys -- you are wrong so deal with it.

 

[tsb]

I recall a post from back in the ancient days when social media was usenet and discussions like those on this forum happened on rec.arts.dance before the spammers got in and ruined it.

certain posters pontificating on their political views ruined RAD long before the spammers did.

Anyway, the post on r.a.d I recall gave the following 3 rules of following:

1. Don't hold on.
2. Don't let go.
3. Don't think.

sounds like enio cordoba over at lets dance la.

Before I get a lot of criticism about #3, it's not my list. And I think it would be better worded as "Don't assume." But over the years developing my dancing in swing and then ballroom, I've found it to be quite true. I suspect that in many cases violations of rule #2 result from rule #3.

I thought that there should be a similar set of rules for leaders. Succinct rules that may be counter-intuitive to a newby but necessary. My proposed rule set is:

1. Protect your partner. (Don't dance her into the furniture or other couples.)
2. Lead with body, not with your hands.
3. You have to follow your partner, too (part of the time).

how do you lead an open break with body lead if your bodies are moving away from each other?

Your thoughts? Any better rules? Better statements?

 

[bia]

Since getting married I have learned that #3 should be "always your fault".

In dancing I might modify that to be: "always your fault unless your instructor says otherwise". :nope:

Note: I don't dance with my wife, however my modified rule applies whenever the female gender is involved. Guys -- you are wrong so deal with it.

I know you're just kidding (I do see the smiley), but I really dislike the "it's always the man's fault" thing, both for marriage and for dance. It defines all women as unreasonable, harping shrews (like all those ads around valentine's day -- don't forget the dozen roses, or she'll be ma-ad) or alternatively as delicate flowers who just need to be protected. And/or it defines all men as interpersonal idiots. The poor silly woman can't understand the complexities of the situation, so I'll just apologize and make it all better. And/or the poor stupid man can't understand all the complexities of the situation, so he shouldn't bother to try and should just assume he's wrong.

Again, I'm not meaning say that this is how you feel personally; I just don't like the cultural framework we seem to have set up for male-female relationships.

I would much rather see a recognition that both marriage and dance are partnerships, not individual endeavors, and so both parties need to take responsibility for how the things that they do affect the other person, even if the effect was unintended. This can be a difficult adjustment for the newly-partnered in either arena, and maybe telling people that all problems are their fault helps nudge them toward taking appropriate responsibility. But I prefer fasc's rules, because I feel that they suit the realities and subtleties of partnership better than some of the others that have been proposed.

ETA: If it's always his fault when it goes wrong, then it's also all his credit when it goes right. If there's no mistake that I can make that will mess up the result, then what I'm doing is fundamentally unimportant to the outcome. And if what I'm doing doesn't matter, why am I even here? Yes, the leader is responsible for initiating, so he has the chance to mess up first. But I'm not willing to let it be all about him, right or wrong. I'm more important than that. And I'm strong enough to handle my own responsibilities.

 

[bia]

how do you lead an open break with body lead if your bodies are moving away from each other?

I think what's meant by "lead with your body" here is not "communicate movement through body contact" but instead something like "initiate movement with your own body, and keep your arms connected to it, so that your partner can feel where you're going and react accordingly." The goal is to keep the leads from "leading" by pushing and pulling the follows around using only their arms. Even though the movement in an open break is away from each other, it's a different feeling if the connecting hand stays more or less centered, with him moving his body away from it (so she feels the cue to do the same), rather than him using the connecting hand to push her backwards. (Leaders, feel free to correct the description; I haven't done a lot of leading myself.)