Salida or not?

[tangombre]

I cast my vote - but I have to say I'm obviously biased as I can't do sequences - I didn't learn that way so I struggle with remembering steps.

The only reason why you'd use the salida is to give someone a verrrry false sense of competence. I found that it gives people a very rigid mindset - "I have to do this step now", without thinking about why that step would be a good one or how to actually lead and follow it. Horrible are the "advanced" classes when I visit other places, where you end up with followers who don't understand that actually only step five in the sequence-of-the-day matters, and all the rest is just filling (in those instances I can only remember the "new-technique-of-the-day" part, and usually end up forgetting the filling, which confuses the followers - who then think I can't lead, because they are not used to following ;-) ).

Much better to focus from the start on leading and following; walking together, stopping together, walking to the side and rudimentary forward ochos can be learnt in one or two classes, add a bit of variations on side steps, sprinkle with a rocking step and one can navigate the floor, dance to the music - and basically start focussing on the dance instead of the steps - from very early on in the process.

 

[blue]

I cast my vote - but I have to say I'm obviously biased as I can't do sequences - I didn't learn that way so I struggle with remembering steps.

I guess we all are biased by the way we were taught... what about the rest of the folks, were you taught the salida early on or not? If not, what were the first things you did?

I was taught the salida as the very first thing we did. That cross was indeed very difficult to understand, what would make me go into that un-intuitive position.

 

[tangombre]

I guess we all are biased by the way we were taught... what about the rest of the folks, were you taught the salida early on or not? If not, what were the first things you did?

Maybe the clue is in the fact that most of the teachers I had classes with have abandoned using the salida in their beginners' classes, even when they started learning tango themselves with the salida a long time ago.

I guess that if you dare to break out of the pattern it appears to be a better approach... I know no-one who went the other way.

One more point; I have no problem with a sequence in an advanced class, as a way to force people to abandon "routine" steps and get something very new to happen. If it is about beginners, I can't see why you would want to burden them with a sequence if all they need is basic steps (as in "forward, side, ocho" - not "the basic step" ;-) )

Is there any good reason why you want to use the salida with beginners? What does it teach that you can't teach as well or better if you leave out the forced numbering and related movement pattern?

I just notice that I do associate "forced" with sequences - maybe it's because to me it looks that way when I see new beginners strutting their stuff on the floor, doing endless repetitions of a basic eight - forced, not created... Unable to navigate, forcing your way to step eight :wink:

 

[Sagitta]

I was taught the salida, but I detested it. Perhaps why I didn't learn much?

 

[angelbaby]

dont know if i know enough yet to cast vote. might know by end of this post... or not :wink:

first classes were too overwhelming altogether. too intense and i felt too umm exposed just learning to walk. anyway it was certainly not a class were you would be taught the 8c.

second classes, different instructors, learned the 8c and yes it prob did give a false sense of security and competence. took a while to realise that you dont just 'do' the 8c and call it tango :? yet it is a good framework to know, or to have, or something. for me anyways cos i was so skittish i would have easily run out the door. maybe false security is a bit better than none as long as you can let it go... sort of like trainer wheels.

have only been learning a few months. will keep in touch re how it goes. i guess i am not able to vote definitively. depends on the ppl and the situ.

 

[bordertangoman]

The only time the Salida was useful for me was in an abridged version casually named the Swedish six step: and this was to learn to dance milonga; where at the beginning you need a pattern just so that you can dance at the required speed. The Swedish six step drops the cross
so its back-side- forward-forward-side-close.

 

[blue]

Swedish six step

:?:

Google knows nothing about it.

 

[Sagitta]

The only time the Salida was useful for me was in an abridged version casually named the Swedish six step: and this was to learn to dance milonga; where at the beginning you need a pattern just so that tyou can dance at the rquired speed. The Swedish six step drops the cross
so its back-side- forward-forward- side-close.

Oh! I do something like that when doing tango...

 

[bordertangoman]

Swedish six step

:?:

Google knows nothing about it.

GOOD! :roll:

 

[blue]

Well actually, soon google will find it on one web site. :lol:

Having taken one six hours beginner course that started with the full 8-count salida, and one ten hours beginner course that started with walking and included a few simple sequences - including the salida but without the back step - I vote for No. It is way too much material for the first bite.

 

[bordertangoman]

Well actually, soon google will find it on one web site. :lol:

.

I have nothing against google except its singularly unselective; having 230,000,000 answers to your search is not particularly helpful, especially when half are US sites and I've clicked the uk box. And not everything worth knowing can be found on a website.

 

[tangombre]

The only time the Salida was useful for me was in an abridged version casually named the Swedish six step: and this was to learn to dance milonga; where at the beginning you need a pattern just so that you can dance at the required speed. The Swedish six step drops the cross
so its back-side- forward-forward-side-close.

Aautsch - that still includes the dreaded back step... BTW: (without wanting to sound rude or unfriendly :wink: ) it's BS you need a "pattern" to dance milonga at the "required speed", you just need to be able to take a step on the beat - if that's the speed you want to dance at - that's all.

I agree that in the beginning milonga may be stressful, but as soon as one manages to relax and just remembers to do something involving a weight shift on every beat (walking, rocking, standing still...) one can dance basic milonga and it becomes so much easier...

 

[bordertangoman]

The only time the Salida was useful for me was in an abridged version casually named the Swedish six step: and this was to learn to dance milonga; where at the beginning you need a pattern just so that you can dance at the required speed. The Swedish six step drops the cross
so its back-side- forward-forward-side-close.

Aautsch - that still includes the dreaded back step... BTW: (without wanting to sound rude or unfriendly :wink: ) it's BS you need a "pattern" to dance milonga at the "required speed", you just need to be able to take a step on the beat - if that's the speed you want to dance at - that's all.

I agree that in the beginning milonga may be stressful, but as soon as one manages to relax and just remembers to do something involving a weight shift on every beat (walking, rocking, standing still...) one can dance basic milonga and it becomes so much easier...

Please read what I wrote more carefully: I said it helps to have a pattern to LEARN milonga: you can then focus on keeping to the beat by keeping a simple pattern of steps which can be repeated so you can relax about the thinking of what step to do next. This was how I was taught and it worked. I don't dance patterns in Milonga.

So I didn't actually say what you thought I said :twisted:

As regards the backstep I often use it in tango on crowded floors going in the line of dances because I can feel if there's someone there before I move my weight onto that foot.

 

[tangombre]

and this was to learn to dance milonga; where at the beginning you need a pattern just so that you can dance at the required speed. The Swedish six step drops the cross
so its back-side- forward-forward-side-close.

Aautsch - that still includes the dreaded back step... BTW: (without wanting to sound rude or unfriendly :wink: ) it's BS you need a "pattern" to dance milonga at the "required speed", you just need to be able to take a step on the beat - if that's the speed you want to dance at - that's all.

Please read what I wrote more carefully: I said it helps to have a pattern to LEARN milonga: you can then focus on keeping to the beat by keeping a simple pattern of steps which can be repeated so you can relax about the thinking of what step to do next. This was how I was taught and it worked. I don't dance patterns in Milonga.

So I didn't actually say what you thought I said :twisted:

As regards the backstep I often use it in tango on crowded floors going in the line of dances because I can feel if there's someone there before I move my weight onto that foot.

Well... If you want to interpret what you wrote that way I'll go with it :? - so patterns can be useful to get someone to relax - and I do agree that that's what is probably most needed for someone doing his first milongas. I'd still prefer to have someone doing steps so simple that it becomes possible to relax and stick to the beat; walking forwards, sidesteps and stopping for example - no more is needed to make a milonga interesting... BTW: I participated in a milonga class a few weeks ago where a somewhat more complex pattern was used, I got confused as i couldn't remember it and was desperate to keep the follower happy by complying and doing the "necessary" steps - as said before I'm just useless with patterns

Anyway - I'm puzzled by your description of doing a backstep in the line of dance and "feeling" someone's there - do you really mean physically feeling someone's there - as in softly bumping into the other person's back (or having a nice heel-on-achilles-tendon connection ;-) )??? I'm probably once more taking what you write too literally 8)

 

[bordertangoman]

Anyway - I'm puzzled by your description of doing a backstep in the line of dance and "feeling" someone's there - do you really mean physically feeling someone's there - as in softly bumping into the other person's back (or having a nice heel-on-achilles-tendon connection ;-) )??? I'm probably once more taking what you write too literally 8)

No that is what I meant; You can't feel (or see) where your partner's foot is but you can feel with your own.