Semantics, definitions, and gobbledegook teacher-speak

FWIW, in my opinion none of these debates was ever a question of 'just semantics'...that there was always real disagreement over how something was thought of or described, etc.
I don't see anything wrong with these debates and actually think that they are healthful for the forum. I'd prefer it to continue this way rather than experience a warm and cozy clique of conformist agreement... wouldn't you?:-?
 
Dave Bailey said:
I like this definition, but I'd expand on it; the way I see it, there's a spectrum.

For example, to take 5 points on this spectrum:

  • Laws: Unbreakable and literally universal. Laws of physics, anatomy and so on. "Ye canna break the laws of physics, Captain" kind of thing.
  • Rules: Universally-agreed codes of dancing. "Respect your partner", for example. You can break these, but you shouldn't.
  • Guidelines: "Good practice" instructions. Should be followed unless there's a good reason not to, or unless you're experienced / skillful enough to do it your way.
  • Interpretations: the way a specific teacher, class or community does things. May be good, may be bad.
  • Styling: how you dance individually. Up to you.
Basically, these get narrower and narrower; more and more local, ranging from the universal to the individual. And a lot of the confusion and conflict we get is when we tend to extrapolate, and confuse (for example) local interpretations with global rules.

As a model, how does that sound?
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I think that's definitely a good way of looking at things.
 
Mario7 said:
FWIW, in my opinion none of these debates was ever a question of 'just semantics'...that there was always real disagreement over how something was thought of or described, etc.
I don't see anything wrong with these debates and actually think that they are healthful for the forum. I'd prefer it to continue this way rather than experience a warm and cozy clique of conformist agreement... wouldn't you?:-?
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No.

When every post deteriorates into "nuevo sucks" or "that's not how they do it in BsAs" or whatever, that's not interesting, that's boring. It's just the same discussion over and over. Agreeing to respect each others' dance style and agreeing on some kind of common reference for discussing the dance isn't conformist or cliquish. In fact, it's the opposite.
 
Mario7 said:
FWIW, in my opinion none of these debates was ever a question of 'just semantics'...that there was always real disagreement over how something was thought of or described, etc.
I don't see anything wrong with these debates and actually think that they are healthful for the forum. I'd prefer it to continue this way rather than experience a warm and cozy clique of conformist agreement... wouldn't you?:-?
Click to expand...
Ummm... NO
 
dchester said:
We seem to have a recurring "issue" as of late. Threads are getting hijacked in a way that is making the place less friendly, and thus is discouraging people from posting as often. IMO the posts below, more or less sum up the major issue(s) from a couple different perspectives.

As I see it, a few of the newer people don't like (what has been) some of the commonly used terminology around here, and appear to be expecting us to conform to how they say it should be. They also don't seem to understand that some of us aren't going to change how we communicate just because they say it is incorrect. This puts us at a stalemate.
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You should read the Breaking the Rules thread again from the start or at least from Page 2 Post 20 by Steve Pastor who actually was the one to initiate the off-topic axis topic. AndaBien joined in agreeing with Steve. Guess who joined in disagreeing and fudging as usual - yes dchester.

You can carry on with your lazy and confusing terminology but there are many more viewers than posters and confusion doesn't help anyone's understanding. The so-called stalemate is clearly of your making and choosing.


dchester said:
Therefore, I am asking that arguments (or prolonged discussions) about disagreement in semantics, terminology, etc., be moved to this thread, thus enabling the other threads to keep the discussion on less inflamatory subjects (like tango).
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Well, no actually. Discussion needs to be relevant to the topic in hand and what is being posted. That's the nature of discussion.
I won't conform to such arguments being put in some sort of sanitised bin to be ignored.

As for inflammatory, I seem to recall that someone called dchester was the one that resorted to a rather unwarranted and inappropriate comparison.

dchester said:
This forum has always had a more friendly atmosphere than forums like Tango-L, and speaking for myself, I'd like it to stay that way.
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I would say that's as much in your hands

dchester said:
If people have other suggestion for how to restore the atmosphere here to a more fun and friendly place, this is a good place to post those as well.
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Listen to other people's arguments (new posters as well old) and think before resorting to the written word. Make sure you understand the whole thread and don't take individual posts out of context. There are other older posters here who can get quite stroppy too.

Mario7 said:
FWIW, in my opinion none of these debates was ever a question of 'just semantics'...that there was always real disagreement over how something was thought of or described, etc.
I don't see anything wrong with these debates and actually think that they are healthful for the forum. I'd prefer it to continue this way rather than experience a warm and cozy clique of conformist agreement... wouldn't you?:-?
Click to expand...

And your reaction to this post (thanks Mario) is illuminating.
It seems that you actually do want a comfortable and cozy clique!

This is a forum about Tango and you want to stifle debate.
You've got no chance. The more that join in, the merrier.
 
often when i go out to dance yufcurd, there are indicators who like to discuss the correct technique for mimors. I always find it confusing, as as far as I'm concerned they are actually talking about pawpods. the aspects of pawpods that give them their paw-like qualities have something in common with how a mimor looks, however the basis for this is clearly subjective, and in my mind entirely wrong. On the other hand when we brogle with our koptes it makes a massive difference.

I really hate to see the term mimor abused in such a way!

I have suggested that we have some work shops on bingle, howcho, nupes and their relationship to pawpods but because of the confusion it has been hard to find an appropriate authority to give them.

Of course in searching for the true meaning of yufcurd i have discovered that there are many yufcurd pretenders. They might call themselves more authentic, or even toilet yufcurd dancers. on occaision we have journeyed into the industrial aspect of yufcurd by way of Kraftwerk style yufcurd arrangements. I contend the the only true yufcurd involves gukdoodle. Without gukdoodle it just ain't yufcurd and the feeling between the partners is absent.



This is how it feels often to read some of the threads. Especially to beginners or nontango dancers.
 
spectator said:
often when i go out to dance yufcurd, there are indicators who like to discuss the correct technique for mimors. I always find it confusing, as as far as I'm concerned they are actually talking about pawpods. the aspects of pawpods that give them their paw-like qualities have something in common with how a mimor looks, however the basis for this is clearly subjective, and in my mind entirely wrong.
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Maybe this is a regional difference, but I think you may have been misinformed (or perhaps your terms come from the balspoof version of yufcurd).

A pawpod is not an actual move. It refers to a person... as in "That guy was a real pawpod!" I suppose ladies could also be pawpods, but I have only heard it in reference to male leaders. I also suppose that a step commonly used by one or several local pawpods could start to be called a pawpod, but that would hardly be a universal use of the term. I've definitely danced with a pawpod, but I can't think of a particular move that I would call the pawpod step.

Does that help with the confusion over pawpods and mimors?
:rolleyes:
 
ah of course Zoops, I was foregetting that some people are convinced that infact the roots of yufcurd are in nappapaw, and that certain "moves" originated from a provincial folkdance podo. perhaps your pawpods dance in the style of a nappapaw? I am still deeply worried about the integrity of mimors, but perhaps I should make allowances.

Nah screw that! I say the neocurds that grew up from industroyufcurd have appropriated our beautiful mimors and deconstructed them to the point that they are irretrievably tainted.

Damn you, you maniacs!
 
spectator said:
ah of course Zoops, I was foregetting that some people are convinced that infact the roots of yufcurd are in nappapaw, and that certain "moves" originated from a provincial folkdance podo. perhaps your pawpods dance in the style of a nappapaw? I am still deeply worried about the integrity of mimors, but perhaps I should make allowances.

Nah screw that! I say the neocurds that grew up from industroyufcurd have appropriated our beautiful mimors and deconstructed them to the point that they are irretrievably tainted.

Damn you, you maniacs!
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And of course, the nuefko-mer' people use "pawbots" to mean pawpods when they are referring to an individual person, and use pawpod to mean a family or other social type grouping of them.
 
those blasted nuefkos. Don't even go there. They think that you have to have counter googkus and they put your left hand in a disturbing position...
 
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