Sixcounts and eightcounts
- Thread starter blue
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tanzsegler
New Member
It's all about your lead leading you in either 6 or 8. If you are doing a great job at following and you still get lost it's your leads fault. If your lead is doing a great job leading and your not doin' so hot following, it's probably your fault. If your both off, then, well your both off. 
Try dancing at home. Backlead yourself through the steps and patterns that you know, switching between 6 and 8. And/Or try taking a couple of classes as a lead to learn how to lead the difference, it will make following it infinately easier.
Try dancing at home. Backlead yourself through the steps and patterns that you know, switching between 6 and 8. And/Or try taking a couple of classes as a lead to learn how to lead the difference, it will make following it infinately easier.
Great question, Blue, and here's a great answer: It doesn't matter!blue said:
In a little more detail: If the lead is clear, you will know and you will hit the six or the eight w/o thinking. If the lead is a little less than clear, you might triple two counts too soon, or step-step when a triple is intended. No prob. All that's needed is to 1) keep following and 2) develop a vocabulary of footwork that can be used to compensate, fill in, etc. (I often use a kick-ball-change if I've tripled too soon, or add a step step, or swivel or sway my hips, anything that fits the music. It's easier than you think, especially if you don't think too much!
suek said:
Right. What is it in the lead that tells me? as everyone says in lindy the leader does not dictate every step the follower takes. I once heard a teacher say something along the lines of "if there is a second lead it is an eight count, if no second lead it is a six count" but I am not sure this is something general. (I don't remember what steps we were doing when he said this.)
I agree with you that intellectual understanding is not what I need to do it, I am just curious...
bjp22tango
Active Member
At the most basic level a 6 count is step step triple step triple step and an 8 count is step step triple step step step triple step
So an 8 count has a step step inserted between the 6 count triple steps
If you come from the 6 count basic into 8 count, as a follower you will feel a "second lead" when he leads you to take the step step instead of the triple step
The other posters aren't trying to be too simplistic. When the follower has the basic timing of both 6 count and 8 count down, there really isn't much to think about if the leader leads correctly. Your subconcious will automatically translate the leaders weight shifts as a 6 count or 8 count.
So an 8 count has a step step inserted between the 6 count triple steps
If you come from the 6 count basic into 8 count, as a follower you will feel a "second lead" when he leads you to take the step step instead of the triple step
The other posters aren't trying to be too simplistic. When the follower has the basic timing of both 6 count and 8 count down, there really isn't much to think about if the leader leads correctly. Your subconcious will automatically translate the leaders weight shifts as a 6 count or 8 count.
swinginstyle
New Member
Generally speaking, their are 6 ct and 8 ct patterns. If I want to extend the pattern, I will slow it down, so the follow will do a walk, walk somewhere. If I want to speed it up, I'll lead faster, thus making her triple step. It's all about proper leading.
Important distinction. The leader does dictate WHERE my body goes, but not always HOW I move my feet.blue said:
I think this is a good example of too much thinking.
Keep it simple: connect connect connect. Match the connection established by your lead, keep matching it, move freely, and have fun.
Flat Shoes
New Member
As it should be, in the sense that you should not have to think about this while dancing. Move your feet naturally from how your body is led, that's how it's done.blue said:
Of course, that does not mean that knowing how it happens is not of interest in order to enhance understanding of the dance. I am not exactly sure, but it has something to do with moving and maybe change of direction. For example many patterns can be extended in the middle (from count 5,6) by walking the lady in some direction. This walking would normally make the lady walk too. So a movement off the body on 5,6 tends to make the lady to step-step. While a pattern done in place tends to induce a tripple-step. At least I think this is part of how it works.
I gave up on trying to turn this into a logically explainable thing because suek's "it doesn't matter" is great. I'm planning to tell my next performance crew, "step step triplestep & move whatever/wherever the leader moves you to do until the next thing starts". The leader makes her start the next thing on her right, so there ya go. Just don't be standing there with all your weight on the right foot. But, even if ya have to start on your left, it's still not hard to keep movin'.
It's only a small range of universal stuff that I can come up with that's better off being laid out all the way to the 6 or the 8, such as a swingout.
It's only a small range of universal stuff that I can come up with that's better off being laid out all the way to the 6 or the 8, such as a swingout.
swinginstyle
New Member
pygmalion said:
It's hard when follows ask me. It's not as if we or them can always start counting patterns and assume when they're going to end. If they're sensitive to the connection, they should be able to sense the speed up or speed down and be able to be on the correct foot when the pattern is through.
swinginstyle
New Member
Ok. Easy answer, but had difficulty applying to this past Friday. I had a woman asking me "how do I know when to triple, how do I know to step, step, how do I know if it's a 6 or 8 count." This resulted in great frustration. I couldn't provide an answer that satisfied her. Neither did I want to lead every one of her weight changes just for her to get the point.
Flat Shoes
New Member
The answer is: You do not consciously know. You move as being lead, and your feet adjust to support the movement. If you, while dancing, try to consciously decide when to tripple or when to walk, you will never be able to dance.
Some time ago I had a moderate tempoed dance with a midle level Boogie Woogie dancer. The basic and patterns in BW are mostly six count. Talking to her afterwards I found out she had no idea that the whole dance had been eight count patterns. She knew tha patterns I'd danced was not the six count patterns she was used to, but she had never consciously reflected over the fact that she was doing eight count patterns instead of six count patterns. She had simply followed like a follower is supposed to.
So while dancing, you do not consciously know whether to six or eight, you just follow as being lead. Then, for the sake of knowledge, you should demonstrate with the different type of leading that would lead the follower to do six and eight count basics. In my oppinion that should be satisfactory for most dancers.
Some time ago I had a moderate tempoed dance with a midle level Boogie Woogie dancer. The basic and patterns in BW are mostly six count. Talking to her afterwards I found out she had no idea that the whole dance had been eight count patterns. She knew tha patterns I'd danced was not the six count patterns she was used to, but she had never consciously reflected over the fact that she was doing eight count patterns instead of six count patterns. She had simply followed like a follower is supposed to.
So while dancing, you do not consciously know whether to six or eight, you just follow as being lead. Then, for the sake of knowledge, you should demonstrate with the different type of leading that would lead the follower to do six and eight count basics. In my oppinion that should be satisfactory for most dancers.
swinginstyle
New Member
Well, that is definitely something that comes with experience. That was basically my answer to this woman. However, she persisted with her questions. Maybe there isn't that perfect answer that she is looking for. Your response is entirely valid, but I doubt this woman would go for it.