Sobre-passos instead of rebotes in VU?

UKDancer said:
I've seen this clip before, but paid more attention, this time. I can't work out what Homer is actually doing that leads the follower's forward kicks (from 5:50). He warns about not pulling the follower off her axis, so I assume that having stepped to the side (creating the space for the kick), there is an invitation for the follower to come forward - but I can't see it in action. Anyone?
Click to expand...

Oh, and to answer the question of how to lead, I believe he is using a tiny bit of contra body and a slight movement away to lead the forward impulse. It doesn't take much if your follower isn't afraid of stepping forward.
 
opendoor said:
dchester, you dance it all the time. But this step is so simple that you did not pay attention to it for years. But I think when you start learning tango the cunita/rebote is one of the first elements that gives you the opportunity for improvisation, so I think it is very important.

I think (may be I am wrong) the confusion of the terms is due to Naveira and Salas. Before each tango element got its own name. So forward and backwards bouncing on the spot was called cunita. Then they found an umbrella term for all kind of that switches, rockings, to-and-fros, stop and goings and used the term rebotes. But either nomenclature coexists (same with the boleos: now weve got the front boleo in neo, and the saludo in retro-speak).


In addition to AndaBien some other vids:

a simple sequence with a counterclockwise cunita http://www.youtube.com/watch?v=tTsTUGTPrfM

H&C on some variations on rebotes http://www.youtube.com/watch?v=Xu7079A-omA

Oscar on some rebotes that fit what I now would regard as sobre pasos http://www.youtube.com/watch?v=G3OU9YnkcJI
Click to expand...
I think a cunita means a rock step (but I'm not 100% sure of that, as I never use that term). I guess that a rebote is a more general term that would include rock steps, among other things. Since I'm not at all clear about the scope of these "other things", I conclude that I don't understand the definition of a rebote.

I actually took a class once that covered rebotes. It did not involve rock steps at all. To be honest, the only thing that I got out of that class was that I had no interest in doing (or learning anything further about) rebotes.


As an aside, I'm also not clear how helpful it was for Naviera and others to come up with new names/definitions/categories for things that already had names.
 
All of these terms point to a very similar action, don't they?

Are they all distinctly different, in some way?
  • Cunita
  • Rebote
  • Traspie
  • Sobre Pasos
 
I have no flippin' clue now. In common parlance where I am from, a traspie is just a step that occurs in double time in milonga. Cunitas are just rocksteps. I am still confused about the other terms so I refuse to use them. ;)
 
UKDancer said:
All of these terms point to a very similar action, don't they?

Are they all distinctly different, in some way?
  • Cunita
  • Rebote
  • Traspie
  • Sobre Pasos
Click to expand...


a cunita moves from feet collected to feet collected
a rebote is a rebound and can be a rockstep ie the followers back foot touches ground
OR the back foot can go back and not touch the ground; and is suspended' then reverse direction
Traspie; (=trip) is (IME) a sidestep in milonga with a lean and often a little flick of the freed up foot.
Sobre Pasos; I dunno;

is it a cross behind as the result of a rebote?

is this it in this video at 1:24?

http://www.youtube.com/watch?v=Ga1dUZm6lbc
 
bordertangoman said:
a cunita moves from feet collected to feet collected
a rebote is a rebound and can be a rockstep ie the followers back foot touches ground
OR the back foot can go back and not touch the ground; and is suspended' then reverse direction
Traspie; (=trip) is (IME) a sidestep in milonga with a lean and often a little flick of the freed up foot.
Sobre Pasos; I dunno;

is it a cross behind as the result of a rebote?

is this it in this video at 1:24?

http://www.youtube.com/watch?v=Ga1dUZm6lbc
Click to expand...

I'm pretty much in agreement on all this except the finer points of traspie'... Omar Vega taught traspie' to both the front and back as well as to the side. In all cases, there is not a complete weight change as it is more like a touch than a step.
 
Subliminal said:
I have no flippin' clue now. In common parlance where I am from, a traspie is just a step that occurs in double time in milonga. Cunitas are just rocksteps. I am still confused about the other terms so I refuse to use them. ;)
Click to expand...

I think the difference (as I have been taught it) between a cunita and "rockstep" is as BTM states above (and really comes down to timing)

The cunita allows for collecting each step making it a full step forward and then a full step back (2 completely independent steps that just happen to occur sequentually). What I think of as "rocksteps" are done on the quicks, allowing no time for collecting, thus achieving the rocking feeling. (you can't really go anywhere from the 1st part EXCEPT to go back where you came from)

The difference between a "rockstep" and traspie is that there is some weight transfer on the rockstep, whereas in traspie, you never even get your whole foot down. (except when doing them to the front)

And the sobrewhatever? Like BTM - I dunno.
 
I've always explained rebotes to myself (and others) as rock steps where you rebound off one foot and change direction, whereas with a traspie you keep going in the original direction.
 
salthepal said:
I've always explained rebotes to myself (and others) as rock steps where you rebound off one foot and change direction, whereas with a traspie you keep going in the original direction.
Click to expand...

??

How do you keep going in the original direction in traspie'? If you are on your left foot and do traspie with your right, the movement is first to the right then back to the left...

??
 
Zoopsia59 said:
?..How do you keep going in the original direction in traspie'? If you are on your left foot and do traspie with your right, the movement is first to the right then back to the left...
Click to expand...

Right, with this variant you stay on the spot: left, right, left, no inch advance. But if the latter step is wider then the first you move forward.

You can do this in simple time, then it is the long-known cunita. If you do it in double time aka with traspie it is called sobre-paso. All together are variants of rebotes.
 
UKDancer said:
I've seen this clip before, but paid more attention, this time. I can't work out what Homer is actually doing that leads the follower's forward kicks (from 5:50). He warns about not pulling the follower off her axis, so I assume that having stepped to the side (creating the space for the kick), there is an invitation for the follower to come forward - but I can't see it in action. Anyone?
Click to expand...

To me it looks like this: Humer builds up a firm wall to stop her rotation and directly when they are parallel he lets his upper body go slightly forward. A quite stiff movement. At the end of this movement his head nods forward, at about 5.59 (check how his chest covers the white door frame to see this!). I think this is the lead making her foot go forward.

During the exercises they talked about the followers responsibility to match the pressure from the leader and I suppose this keeps her on axis even here. Though I couldn't see any reaction in her upper body. I was expecting her upper body to match Humers movement and move forward.

Can you hear what is the advise they give for the close side of embrace? I can not hear it; starts about 3.25
 
opendoor said:
Right, with this variant you stay on the spot: left, right, left, no inch advance. But if the latter step is wider then the first you move forward.

You can do this in simple time, then it is the long-known cunita. If you do it in double time aka with traspie it is called sobre-paso. All together are variants of rebotes.
Click to expand...

this is getting to be a sackful of monkeys. I dont think any of these descitions are ones that I agree with.

the trapsie as I understand has to have some kind of movement

its a cut step to the left, collect and step with toght; any which way you like; but most often diagonal forward left, straight forward or striaght back.
 
Re: going in the same direction as you rock, imagine taking a small side step to the left with your left foot, pressing into the floor. This will make your weight shift to the right foot while the left foot is still on the floor (for a split second, you're standing with your feet apart). You then take a longer step to the left with your left foot. I call that a traspie. You can do it starting on either foot, going on any direction (side/forward/back).

The best video example I found of this concept is this video of Javier Rodriguez and the late Andrea Misse (starting at 0:23)
http://www.youtube.com/watch?v=3ITnObYIixA
 
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