Social obligations...

[msc]

Vince,
Well, more or less I let her lead the pattern, as there was no other way to survive the routine. Thankfully, I may not have to dance with that evil woman again ... although I feel for her poor husband. He should be nominated for sainthood, or at least martyrdom, IMO.

SD- Leading is tricky, especially when you start dealing with those really, really advanced follows. The problem is, beginning/intermediate follows often don't know how to follow or they just memorize patterns. Intermediate/advanced follows want every pattern led, more or less. But then the truly advanced want to style every now and then, and it's your job to wait for them to finish, preferably while striking an appropriate complementary pose. The problem is, most follows fall in category one or two, so when you finally dance with one that can really, really move, it's hard to switch gears. I'm getting better at it, but it's not easy.

 

[SDsalsaguy]

SD- Leading is tricky, especially when you start dealing with those really, really advanced follows. The problem is, beginning/intermediate follows often don't know how to follow or they just memorize patterns. Intermediate/advanced follows want every pattern led, more or less. But then the truly advanced want to style every now and then, and it's your job to wait for them to finish, preferably while striking an appropriate complementary pose. The problem is, most follows fall in category one or two, so when you finally dance with one that can really, really move, it's hard to switch gears. I'm getting better at it, but it's not easy.

I know what you're talking about msn, but personally I feel that it is actually incumbent upon the follower not to sacrifice following for the sake of styling. To me the best women are the one’s who add styling – not use it as a substitute. That is its own issue, but in the case I was mentioning it wasn’t a styling issue – she was out rightly ignoring leads for some patterns and self-leading others.

 

[msc]

Fair enough, SDsalsa, sounds like she was a total, uh, jerk. However, your recollection has unfortunately sent me tumbling down repressed memory lane, I have a similar story.

At the time, I was fairly intermediate, I had performed a Salsa routine with an instructor at a local studio, but I only new 10-20 moves, only a few of which had any sophistication. I went to the local salsa club, and worked up the nerve to ask one of the more "advanced" dancers to dance. So we walked out onto the floor, and after about 1 minute, she dropped the connection and walked off the floor, returning to her drink and her two friends. Needless to say, it took me a while to go out to another Salsa club after that.

 

[SDsalsaguy]

Exactly my point msc! More advanced dancers can -- and unfortunately often are – bigger jerks then less capable dancers. Assuming that (a) you don’t have problems with personal hygiene, (b) you are not being inappropriate, and (c) you are not making the dance physically uncomfortable/dangerous, there is absolutely no call for the type of behavior you describe.

For some reason your story makes me recall a different episode/lesson – many times critique and criticism are nothing more then a defensive mechanism for one’s own insecurities. Unfortunately one of my first salsa partners and I both learned this too late – we had both made the other question our own abilities and competence out of insecurities about ourselves. If we had even been mature and wise enough to talk everything out we could (and would) have avoided a lot of hurt feelings and shaken confidence levels on both sides.

—Jonathan

 

[MissAlyssa]

talk about rude msc. I really dislike people like that. :roll:

 

[MissAlyssa]

when do you consider it rude to turn someone down? if you are tired, thirsty, just don't want to dance with them, feel like you are better...etc etc..

 

[pygmalion]

I try never to turn a guy down, if I can. Even when I'm tired.

Only exceptions -- when I've danced with the guy before and he's a jerk, or when there's a dance I can't do. I'm sure I'll think of at least one more exception, and edit this later.

 

[pygmalion]

Oh yeah.

I knew I'd think of something else.

If I'm turning everybody down. Once, I went to a party physically ill, to support a friend who was giving it. That night, I turned everybody down, because I just didn't feel up to dancing.

The thing with turning guys down is that, for many of them, it's hard to ask in the first place. And I'm guessing for most of them, it's hard to get "rejected" in public.

So I try not to "reject" them unless I have to.

 

[pygmalion]

Why do I keep thinking up exceptions to my own darn post?

There were two times I broke my own rule.

1. When a guy who asked me had bad BO.
2. When a guy who asked me had an extremely jealous wife. I'm not getting in the middle of that.

 

[Vince A]

Why do I keep thinking up exceptions to my own darn post?

There were two times I broke my own rule.

1. When a guy who asked me had bad BO.
2. When a guy who asked me had an extremely jealous wife. I'm not getting in the middle of that.

I don't blame you, but of course . . . neither 1 nor 2 needed to be at or near the dance floor!

 

[pygmalion]

I went to the local salsa club, and worked up the nerve to ask one of the more "advanced" dancers to dance. So we walked out onto the floor, and after about 1 minute, she dropped the connection and walked off the floor, returning to her drink and her two friends. Needless to say, it took me a while to go out to another Salsa club after that.

I can relate to this msc. I had a similar experience once. Talk about humiliating! And bad manners too.

I guess the question here is, where do you draw the line, when you're dancing with an unfamiliar partner? How much feedback can you give without being rude, but still respect your right to have a good time?

 

[pygmalion]

SD- Leading is tricky, especially when you start dealing with those really, really advanced follows. The problem is, beginning/intermediate follows often don't know how to follow or they just memorize patterns. Intermediate/advanced follows want every pattern led, more or less. But then the truly advanced want to style every now and then, and it's your job to wait for them to finish, preferably while striking an appropriate complementary pose. The problem is, most follows fall in category one or two, so when you finally dance with one that can really, really move, it's hard to switch gears. I'm getting better at it, but it's not easy.

Another good point, msc. Same thing here. Advanced leads are capable of leading every move, even subdividing moves, and they expect you to wait for every signal. Inexperienced leads, well, they're inexperienced, and may lead little if anything effectively. They give a lot of arm leads, visual leads, and late leads. Oh yeah, and I forgot, sometimes verbal leads! :lol: So the following strategy is completely different for the two types of leads.

It's the switching gears that's killing me. Thoughts, anyone?

 

[brujo]

Re: Social Obligations . . .

True enough...but the true bane of my dancing existence is NO resistance whatsoever...the infamous "spaghetti arms" – yuck!

Are you kidding? these are the best to do the fancy cuban style pretzel moves with! Use your head / shoulders and torso to connect with her elbows and all the sudden spaghetti arms are a dream...

 

[pygmalion]

I'm no teacher or super-technical dance person (yet), but I think it's possible both of you guys may be right with respect to the arm thing.

I've spent the last year getting yelled at about my arms which still tend to go stiff, especially under pressure, and here's what I've come up with.

Depending on the dance move and/or dance I'm doing, different amounts of arm resistance may be needed. The goal is to use the minimum resistance necessary in any given situation, but not less than the minimum, and allow the arms to be the messenger for what the body is trying to convey. The connection is body to body, through the arms.

I try to think of it as my giving up my arms to the connection between partners. My arms don't belong to me. They belong to the connection, and they're flexible enough to move as needed. Make sense?

 

[AquaDancer]

I'm relativelly new to the ballroom scene so I don't have many stories or too much ballroom knowledge but honestly how do you turn a guy down without letting him down...

You first must understand that for some crazy reason I just don't like swing.

This guy kinda just pulled me out on the dance floor to do a swing. I told him that I don't know much swing, nor do I want to but that's beside the poing. I know some ECS and WCS but this guy was crazy. He's like "ok you stand over there and I'll stand over here and ... He basically was trying to choreograph something right there. The whole time I'm just like this is terrible. So, half way through the song I thanked him and apologized for not knowing whatever it was he was trying to get me to do and we left the floor.

I still feel so guilty for leaving like that but honestly he was CRAZY!