Socializing in salsa clubs

[lundasalsa]

I'm a bit embarassed about what I'm about to write, but I'm encouraged by the thread about lurkers to proceed anyway.

I started taking salsa lessons one and a half year ago and I have now acquired some skills although I'd certainly not say that I'm, so to say, advanced. During class I every now and then try to lead a pattern different from the one we are working on, just to see whether my lead is clear to the girl (no following guys here). It feels good when that works out.

But then dancing in a club, that is a different story. Lund is a smallish town and salsa club dancing is something you can only do on one or two nights in a whole month. I'm not sure that I really enjoy it as much as I could and that's why I'd like to hear how others deal with the issues I have. I have very few friends that do salsa dancing, so I normally end up going to the club on my own. That'd be fine with me if only I could dance all night long -- I'm fit enough to dance several hours non-stop. But I usually end up dancing no more than one third of the time or even less.

One thing is DJs that play lots of music that I can't dance on. Many here will agree with me on the merengues, but since the dance floor is not completely empty during those I guess that they serve an audience. Other undanceable music is salsa with such convoluted rhythms that I can't hear the beat. I hate it when that happens just when I have found an experienced salsera.

The other thing is getting turned down when I ask for a dance. Yes, all you great dancers on DF will never turn someone down except if he is dangerous or rude, but the tough reality is that most girls here do not know about your etiquette rules. It is not exactly boosting my confidence when I hear "no" from three, four, or five different girls in a row. My memory for faces is not good enough to remember all the no-sayers, so as the evening proceeds I know that there are a lot of girls who for one reason or another don't like to dance with me, without exactly knowing who. Oh, in case you wonder: I do pay attention to my personal hygiene and I don't grope! Some responses:
* "I am tired". Quite common with girls that are standing besides the dance floor instead of sitting.
* "I have a jealous boyfriend".
* "I have just arrived". She was standing near the bar, moving on the rhythm.
* "I can't dance". I usually say that that isn't a problem for me and sometimes that does the job.
* "I have an injury/I have a stomach ache". I didn't know that there are so many young girls with serious medical problems.
* "well....... no". This is most common, usually with an embarrassed look on the face. I'm not sure whether that means that she is insecure about her dancing capabilities or thinks I'm a creep who's trying to hit on her.

I normally ask girls that are standing near the dance floor. When a song finishes, a mysterious phenomenon that takes only a few seconds happens on the dance floor. Suddenly, it turns into an ant's nest, with people leaving the floor, alone or in pairs, and others recombining and after that there usually aren't any partner-less girls left. I don't know how others manage to switch partners on the floor.

I'm not comfortable with chatting up strangers (and when I try the conversation usually doesn't last very long), so I feel quite lonely when I'm standing on the sideline. It's better to be alone when there actually aren't other people around than to feel lonely amidst other people that are having a good time. It might have to do with the Swedish culture, where (I think) people tend to be a bit reserved to strangers compared to those from South-European or latino cultures. I'm not a native Swede but I fit in all too well in that respect. For some reason I didn't make friends in salsa class either.

Anyone here who recognizes any of this or has some comments?

 

[Sagitta]

There are some elements that I recognize lundasalsa. I was an introvert before I started dancing. If a lady is embarassed, or says I don't know how to dance, I don't accept that as a no. I almost always end up dancing with them for at least one dance.

As for merengue I'll dance that once again. Go figure!!

One easy way to start is by commenting on the music, the dancers etc. Often based on what the person says you can go in many directions. It is kind of difficult for me to say how to proceed as I've talked about where we are from, dancing philosphies/styles, hobbies... This also makes it more natural and easier to ask the person for a dance when the next song starts.

 

[SalsaGeek]

Hi lundsalsa,
Sorry about your bad experiences on the dance floor. I hope I am not totally off here but based on what you wrote I am guessing that maybe you are not giving out the right signals to others. By signals I mean like your facial expressions and body language. To me if someone is giving out a positive vibe I will be more receptive toward that person. When I am out dancing I smile and act I am having fun so most of the time people are friendly toward me. Basically stay positive and eventually people will notice. I know it's hard if you are an introvert. Just keep trying and you will eventually get better at it.
I am just recalling from experience when my friend and I both went to the salsa club one night, I would be having a blast and my friend would be sitting on the side watching most of the night. He isn't a bad dancer himself but his dancing was too stiff and mechanical. I danced with the girls that he danced with and they told me that my friend just wasn't any fun to dance with.
You've come this far so don't give up. Keep taking lessons and improve your lead and I am sure the ladies will notice. It also helps if you keep going to the same place and become a regular there. Get to know the DJ, buy him a drink and maybe he will play more songs that you can dance to. When Merengue comes on go grab some beginners and just have fun so others can see that you can dance. Be CONFIDENT. That should lead to more dances later on. Hope this helps.

 

[tj]

But then dancing in a club, that is a different story. Lund is a smallish town and salsa club dancing is something you can only do on one or two nights in a whole month. I'm not sure that I really enjoy it as much as I could and that's why I'd like to hear how others deal with the issues I have. I have very few friends that do salsa dancing, so I normally end up going to the club on my own. That'd be fine with me if only I could dance all night long -- I'm fit enough to dance several hours non-stop. But I usually end up dancing no more than one third of the time or even less.

Hang in there, Lunda. Don't take it personally - instead think of the rejections because they don't know you...

So where do the others learn to dance? Is it possible to meet some of them thru any of the classes that you've been taking? That's probably the easiest way to get to know them.

 

[Sagitta]

Great advice salsageek. This past Tuesday I had more people asking me to dance then the previous two weeks combined. Must have been the vibes I was giving off the previous nights.

 

[lundasalsa]

So where do the others learn to dance? Is it possible to meet some of them thru any of the classes that you've been taking? That's probably the easiest way to get to know them.

That's what you'd think and I'm going to take more classes (the highest level this school offers) when the next course starts in a couple of weeks. However, courses haven't given me new friends over the past 18 months, so I'm not sure how I can make it work out differently during this course. The courses are usually given in a rather bare studio without a bar or anything like that; there is a 10-minute break during the two-hour lesson where people rush for the toilet, and after the course everybody leaves immediately.

I'm envious of people who can charm others without effort. Things like mathematics are a piece of cake for me, but approaching strangers is one of the hardest things I know.

I was an introvert before I started dancing. If a
lady is embarassed, or says I don't know how to dance, I don't accept that as a no.

Okay, I usually try to convince the ladies in these two cases with some success for the "don't-know-how-to- dance"s. With the "embarassed-but-I-can't-tell-you-why" I respond half-jokingly with something like "O, come on, don't be silly, let's just dance!", but that never persuades them. At least, when they refuse two more times, I usually give up. Should I bug them for a couple of minutes instead?

As for merengue I'll dance that once again. Go
figure!!

I'm trying to figure out what you meant by this
phrase. :?

maybe you are not giving out the right signals to
others. By signals I mean like your facial expressions and body language.

You have a point there, people might read from my face that I'm thinking "Oh, please let this one say yes!". On the other hand, when I am dancing and connecting well (fortunately that does happen every now and then) I'm pretty sure that I radiate loads of positive vibes. And the ladies are in fact relatively unwilling to dance: plenty of them are really just standing on the side with their friends the whole evening. Often the lady that I ask will indicate that her girlfriend is a much more suitable candidate for dancing with me, which she of course never is (she refuses as well).

(I accidentally edited this post)

 

[SalsaGeek]

Everything has to start within yourself. So try not to think how the next lady will turn you down. I can't imagine EVERY single female doing that. If that's the case I would just go to a new venue and forget about the last one. Read up on some of the past topics on how to "Ask for a dance"


http://www.dance-forums.com/viewtopic.php?t=2417
http://www.dance-forums.com/viewtopic.php?t=2428

 

[DWise1]

Lundasalsero, you remind me of the story I read many years ago about the heart-less sword.

In Japan, a stranger challenged the top student and heir apparent of his teacher for ownership of the school and marriage to the teacher's daughter. The stranger beat the student, who then wandered for years trying to find a teacher who could show him how to beat that stranger, but he himself beat most whom he met.

Until one day he met a swordsman who beat him, so he pleaded to be taught. The swordsman explained that he had nothing to teach, because the student was a better swordsman than he. The only problem was that the student was fighting with his heart in the sword; he was worried about the outcome of the match and so could not dedicate himself completely to it. To win, he must fight with a heartless sword, rather than with a heart-filled one.


And another story -- and I apologize ahead of time for its sleaziness -- of the guy who would immediately proposition every girl he met. 99 times out of a hundred (or 9 times out of ten, depending on the telling), he would get his face slapped, but he found his reward in that one time when she accepted.
[Disclaimer: I do not in any way endorse this kind of behavior nor am I in any way or manner suggesting that anyone adopt this approach to dealing with the complementary gender. It was offered only to illustrate the point that you may need to go through many more rejections than acceptances; ask any salesman.]

A variation of that last one was the experience of a friend and fellow computer science graduate who sent out 75 résumés for his first job and only got back one offer. He told me that it doesn't matter how many résumés you have to send out; you only need that one offer to make it worthwhile.


And, of course, there's Churchill's famous speech: "Never give up."


And our son was once complimented on a "no fear" tshirt (they were very popular here at the time) that he was wearing. Based on basketball, it said, "You miss 100% of the shots you don't take."


So don't give up asking. However many turn down your offer to dance, it's that one who accepts that makes it worthwhile. And ask without worrying about the outcome, most certainly without anticipating rejection -- nor, in addition, take any rejection personally.

And never give up.


PS
On a more practical and less motivational note: how are your shines?

During the songs that you don't have anyone to dance with, do you just stand there alone or do you kind of dance along with the music? Even if not actual shines, then at least somehow moving to and following the rhythm. Doesn't have to be anything fancy -- and probably shouldn't be -- , but should be subtle and appear as if you aren't consciously trying to do it. Think of it in biological terms (ie, similar to different species' mating displays that signal the male's fitness to the female). You'd be demonstrating that you are in tune with the music, which would make you appear more desirable as a dance partner.

And while you're doing that, look around casually to see whether there are any girls doing their own private dance as well. And whether they are also casually looking around. And if you should both be looking in the right direction at the same time, certain subtle visual cues will indicate to you that she will very likely accept your invitation to dance -- or they will indicate that she would not; you will need to learn to read them.

 

[Lucretia]

You don’t need to be friend with your Salsa class mates for going out with them. This summer I learnt to know a few guys from my class when we happened to meet in a few salsa venues. And we have so much fun when we are out together. We have the same foundation to build on and the feels very comfortable. We are great dancing mates!

I’m sure the rest of the class have same problem. They want to start social dancing but they don’t know how to start and where to go. Why don’t you talk to the teacher and advertise a “salsa class meeting” at the salsa club. I’m sure a lot of people will join you.

Then of course…to be turned down again and again isn’t fun. I know from a follower perspective….no one ask me to dance.

Last salsa night I was a winner. I had succeeded in many things that day and I guess there was a kind of inner/outer glow around me. I have never ever had such a great time since my salsa carrier started. Perhaps you problem is inside your head…your self image and what vibes it send out to the girls.

Keep on dancing, go to classes, try to go out with your classmates and read a book about mental training. If you’d like to.


/Lucretia


ps

Professor Uneståhl, at Idrottshögskolan i Örebro has written a few books about mental training. There is a CD with relaxation program and mental exercises at the Drugstore. Great for connecting you right hemisphere …the expert of dancing…with the rest of your body & soul. Great for all kind of problems actually

 

[Sagitta]

I was an introvert before I started dancing. If a lady is embarassed, or says I don't know how to dance, I don't accept that as a no.

Okay, I usually try to convince the ladies in these two cases with some success for the "don't-know-how-to-dance"s. With the "embarassed-but-I-can't-tell-you-why" I respond half-jokingly with something like "O, come on, don't be silly, let's just dance!", but that never persuades them. At least, when they refuse two more times, I usually give up. Should I bug them for a couple of minutes instead?

I don't say that. I say it doesn't matter. Let's just have some fun on the floor. Then when dancing sometimes they say, "see, I don't know how to dance." My retort is, "I asked, you, even when you said you didn't know, didn't I? It doesn't matter." Then sometimes even at the end they apologize and say they don't know how to dance. I ask them if they enjoyed themselves, had fun. I tell them that I did as well and that's all that matters.

I like cumbia / forro style dancing, but there aren't many people who know it. So I get some of those responses for that. What I tend to do is momentum based turns from back breaks. That easily fits the music to my ears. Then transition into the side-to-side style of dancing.

As for merengue I'll dance that once again. Go figure!!

I'm trying to figure out what you meant by this phrase. :?

I really liked merengue when I started out, got turned off it, and now I enjoy it once again. Unfortunately I get a little carried away and you may see me doing bachata style steps or cha cha or something else that is really funky to a merengue song.

maybe you are not giving out the right signals to others. By signals I mean like your facial expressions and body language.

You have a point there, people might read from my face that I'm thinking "Oh, please let this one say yes!". On the other hand, when I am dancing and connecting well (fortunately that does happen every now and then) I'm pretty sure that I radiate loads of positive vibes. And the ladies are in fact relatively unwilling to dance: plenty of them are really just standing on the side with their friends the whole evening. Often the lady that I ask will indicate that her girlfriend is a much more suitable candidate for dancing with me, which she of course never is.

This has happened a couple of times. Last Saturday night I asked one lady to dance a cha cha and she tells her friend to dance. I discovered that her friend liked cha cha a lot while she felt that 1) wasn't as good and 2) didn't like it as much. So, in my experience this always isn't the case.

It also has happened that she wants her friend to dance while she takes a break, her friend is celebrating something so she is making sure she gets dances... I have gone up to a table of 6-8 ladies. Asked one to dance and been passed on from one to another. I persisted and got a dance from an advanced salsera and we had a good time.

 

[tj]

So where do the others learn to dance? Is it possible to meet some of them thru any of the classes that you've been taking? That's probably the easiest way to get to know them.

That's what you'd think and I'm going to take more classes (the highest level this school offers) when the next course starts in a couple of weeks. However, courses haven't given me new friends over the past 18 months, so I'm not sure how I can make it work out differently during this course. The courses are usually given in a rather bare studio without a bar or anything like that; there is a 10-minute break during the two-hour lesson where people rush for the toilet, and after the course everybody leaves immediately.

I'm envious of people who can charm others without effort. Things like mathematics are a piece of cake for me, but approaching strangers is one of the hardest things I know.

Before going and blaming yourself... is there another studio that teaches classes? Preferably where it's more conducive for socializing? If it hasn't happened in a year and a half, then try somewhere else if possible.

Another question - are the same people in class also going to that particular club? I'd say it's rather important to recognize some familiar faces. Worse come to worse, ask them, "Hey, aren't you in so-and-so's classes?" and start up a conversation about the instructor.

 

[DWise1]

So where do the others learn to dance? Is it possible to meet some of them thru any of the classes that you've been taking? That's probably the easiest way to get to know them.

That's what you'd think and I'm going to take more classes (the highest level this school offers) when the next course starts in a couple of weeks. However, courses haven't given me new friends over the past 18 months, so I'm not sure how I can make it work out differently during this course. The courses are usually given in a rather bare studio without a bar or anything like that; there is a 10-minute break during the two-hour lesson where people rush for the toilet, and after the course everybody leaves immediately.

I'm envious of people who can charm others without effort. Things like mathematics are a piece of cake for me, but approaching strangers is one of the hardest things I know.

Before going and blaming yourself... is there another studio that teaches classes? Preferably where it's more conducive for socializing? If it hasn't happened in a year and a half, then try somewhere else if possible.

Another question - are the same people in class also going to that particular club? I'd say it's rather important to recognize some familiar faces. Worse come to worse, ask them, "Hey, aren't you in so-and-so's classes?" and start up a conversation about the instructor.

I'll second that suggestion very big-time! My own transition to going out has been helped greatly by the presence of many of the people I know from class (Lindy at one school and WCS et alia at another; I haven't gone out for open dancing in Salsa yet). It's even been the case of a number of girls from class asking me for a dance instead of vice versa.

 

[tj]

And while you're doing that, look around casually to see whether there are any girls doing their own private dance as well. And whether they are also casually looking around. And if you should both be looking in the right direction at the same time, certain subtle visual cues will indicate to you that she will very likely accept your invitation to dance -- or they will indicate that she would not; you will need to learn to read them.

Nice stories and good advice, DW.

I definitely do the "screening for visual cues" thing when I'm somewhere unfamiliar. Sometimes not even consciously.

 

[lundasalsa]

is there another studio that teaches classes? Preferably where it's more conducive for socializing? If it hasn't happened in a year and a half, then try somewhere else if possible.

Hmm, I know there's another teacher that teaches in a different style. (me: Cuban. Him: don't know, LA/NY? I have to research this.

are the same people in class also going to that particular club? I'd say it's rather important to recognize some familiar faces.

That's the weird thing. I've taken quite a few classes with different people each time (because of me repeating a course level instead of proceeding to the next), but I only meet very few of those people. The school sometimes organizes parties with a dinner that's for students only, followed by a public club night, and even there I don't see many familiar faces. The school has about twelve classes, with maybe 400 students. Sometimes I vaguely recognize a male face, but for some reason I have a much better memory for the girls I dance with during classes.

 

[tj]

is there another studio that teaches classes? Preferably where it's more conducive for socializing? If it hasn't happened in a year and a half, then try somewhere else if possible.

Hmm, I know there's another teacher that teaches in a different style. (me: Cuban. Him: don't know, LA/NY? I have to research this.

Well there you go then!

are the same people in class also going to that particular club? I'd say it's rather important to recognize some familiar faces.

That's the weird thing. I've taken quite a few classes with different people each time (because of me repeating a course level instead of proceeding to the next), but I only meet very few of those people. The school sometimes organizes parties with a dinner that's for students only, followed by a public club night, and even there I don't see many familiar faces. The school has about twelve classes, with maybe 400 students. Sometimes I vaguely recognize a male face, but for some reason I have a much better memory for the girls I dance with during classes.

So try a more direct approach. Ask the girls you dance with during class where/when they go dancing. I'm not suggesting that you invite yourself along, but at least you can start getting a general idea of where & when your fellow classmates are going.