Standard for judging competitions?

[Mengu]

I will just say - it's not easiest for everyone. I wish it had been that simple for me, it wasn't for lacking of trying.

I have to agree with this. My wife never fully learned to put on makeup or do her own hair. I learned with her. We took a workshop with our instructor. We got it to a point where if I did her eye makeup, she could do the rest, and I would just assist her with the hair, pinning everything down (and after the comp, unpinning everything). A few times we splurged on other people to do her hair and makeup. I watched to learn and pick up tips. I still suck at it. I'm not much of a sculptor, and I found hair to be a difficult medium to work with, especially when attached to someone's head. I'm a reasonably good painter, so face painting was easier for me.

On the topic of glasses... If I couldn't wear contacts, I would have to wear glasses. I would be a hazard on the dance floor otherwise, and I might get dizzy/queasy to top it off. I'd hope judges wouldn't judge people with glasses as harsh as a third grader.

 

[fineshrine]

I am not even sure why threads like this exist ... all judges have ALWAYS said that grooming is important.

I personally have really enjoyed this thread and your comments and I'm really glad it exists as it's answered some questions I've had for a while, especially since moving away from medalist and into pro am where people are more likely to get their hair done by a professional and wear expensive dresses. I also consider grooming to be important, and follow the advice of my teachers and do my absolute best to get the dancer "look." It's just that the phrase "grooming is important" isn't a full description of what the expectation is. I want to impress the judges, so I want them to elaborate on exactly what they want to see from me, so I can do it, so long as my budget allows. I feel like I have more of an idea now, and I'm less worried that I'm getting it wrong

 

[lucia_l]

On the topic of glasses... If I couldn't wear contacts, I would have to wear glasses. I would be a hazard on the dance floor otherwise, and I might get dizzy/queasy to top it off. I'd hope judges wouldn't judge people with glasses as harsh as a third grader.

If I were a guy, I wouldn't be quite as concerned. I know that for women, the "presentation" involves very long (so fake) lashes, eye makeup and so on. If you put eyeglasses over this, all that make-up is obscured. So I know if I wear glasses, the initial impression will tend to be "didn't bother to wear makeup" even if I did wear makeup.

If that initial impression is then something I need to overcome, then I'd prefer to avoid easily fixable things that can make a bad impression. It takes no time at all to remove my glasses. I'm a follow. I don't need to see. I'm not in the category of "railing against the injustice" of this sort of thing. If wearing glasses has even a slight chance of creating a "ding" right off the bat, "take off glasses" is a fairly easy decision.

The presentation for men doesn't involve all all the eye makeup. Leads need to be able to see. I wouldn't take off my glasses if I was a lead. The decision to do contacts would be more difficult since they are expensive enough that it's a bit odd to get them just to wear a few times a year.

 

[lucia_l]

Larinda,

The judges won't mark you last for wearing glasses if that is what you want to know. But glasses do not factor into the expected presentation, nor do sneakers. Wear either of them and you are bound to get some sideways glances.

Oh, I absolutely know they can't judge "why" you look the way you do or wore what you wore. That would be impossible. If I'd bought a $5,000,000 dress for the competition which got spattered by mud in the driveway and had to wear rags, I know they would have no idea why I wore the rags. That's not their fault. It's just bad luck for me.

This is really no different that what happens in job interviews, professional presentations and so on. The first impression will be how you look. (In job interviews, we speak. So why we are wearing what we are wearing might come up. But it does help to "dress right" for the job in question.

I do want to thank you for the information you are giving. I'm not the kind to rail against the "injustice of it all". That wasn't my reason for bringing it up. I had some people ( e.g. Tommye Giacchino say glasses ok... but then also asked I really needed them. I tried dancing without them, and in some ways, it actually made some things better. ) I talked to another teacher (Irina Shukat) who said she'd absolutely take them off.

But I wanted to see if this seemed to get a broader set of opinions.

It sounds like "don't wear" is pretty good advice. My lead can guide me on and off the floor. It's really not that big a problem. Obviously, the cost is $0.

 

[scullystwin42]

The presentation for men doesn't involve all all the eye makeup. Leads need to be able to see. I wouldn't take off my glasses if I was a lead. The decision to do contacts would be more difficult since they are expensive enough that it's a bit odd to get them just to wear a few times a year.

I think the glasses thing goes for men, too. I'm pretty sure one of the rising star pro smooth dancers I enjoy watching really does need glasses but never wears them on the competition floor. Presentation counts for men, too, as Larinda noted.

 

[Mengu]

If glasses are as offensive as sneakers, then yes, even for men, it's probably worth going on the floor half blind.

 

[bry_dancer]

I was told by the owner of my studio that I really had to get contacts for competing so that's what I did. I bought them specifically for that and only wear them when competing. Then I got beat by a guy wearing glasses at my first comp so go figure.

At my most recent comps I started applying tanner which is something I never thought I would do, but it does look better.

I was also told by my pro partner that she is often required to wear fishnets at some comps.

My thought is that every little bit helps to make the look a bit more perfect and if it's not that expensive or painful then why not go for it. IMHO the dancing matters most but you can get overlooked for having a sub-par image. Another pro told me it's a combo of a dance contest and a fashion contest.

That said, so far I've drawn the line at shaving my chest even though they've been encouraging me to do that.

 

[raindance]

If glasses are as offensive as sneakers, then yes, even for men, it's probably worth going on the floor half blind.

I have literally been run into on the competition floor by men (teachers no less) who made this decision. They didn't have contacts (for whatever reason, cost, comfort, laziness, I don't know). And I would see them take their glasses off for their heats. And then these same leaders would run into other couples because they can't see so well on the floor. I think that they felt that wearing glasses was a bigger risk than the possibility of poor floorcraft due to bad vision. I wish glasses weren't as offensive as sneakers, but I accept that it is probably otherwise in ballroom events.

I hope no one thinks I'm "railing against the injustice of it all." I just try to be aware of the realities, and help others be aware as well. (I could have used a friendly introduction to all of this years back.)

I agree that those that show the least baggage by being impeccably groomed (and also dance well) win.

But the degree of it was a bit shocking when I first got into competing. And it's frustrating to hear how easy it should be to "just look the part" (a sentiment I have heard in person from several other judges) when for many dancers, it's really not that easy. Possible? Worth the effort? Maybe, maybe not, depending on their goals. Everyone gets to make their own choices.

 

[JudeMorrigan]

Count me in as a guy who's very, very blind without vision correction ("Is it cheating if I say I know the top letter is an "E" even though I can't actually see it") who buy contacts every couple of years purely for the purpose of competing. In fact, I've been giving serious consideration to trying to find an am partner and get back to competition, and I had just recently thought about how that meant I really needed to get contacts the next time I have an eye exam. Even though they're impractical for work, given just how poorly my eyes deal with having them in for a full work day.

 

[scullystwin42]

As I've said in other threads about this, this is the uniform for ballroom dance competitions. Baseball players wear tight pants and cleats and long socks, gymnasts wear leotards, basketball players wear long shorts and tanks. And within those guidelines, styles change. basketball used to be short shorts, you occasionally see a competitive gymnast in three-quarter or sleeveless (but oh what a hubbub the first time that was worn in int'l competition), etc.

 

[IndyLady]

I found hair to be a difficult medium to work with, especially when attached to someone's head.

I will just say - it's not easiest for everyone. I wish it had been that simple for me, it wasn't for lacking of trying.
....
not easy, or simple, or quick, or cheap to upgrade yourself to ballroom grooming!
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I realize it's well known that it's required for competition. I'm just saying that it's really not easy, not for everyone!

Agree with all of this. I ultimately bit the bullet and succumbed to buying a couple expensive dresses and getting the high-end hair/makeup done each time. I am fortunate that I can afford to do that. I am not a skilled bargain hunter or crafty DIY-er. I spend 3 hours one Sunday before a comp working on a dress that had been loaned to me (bra cups needed to be moved - that took me two tries each, rips/tears that needed to be covered or patched, a couple large stones needed to re-sewn on). I don't ever want to repeat that experience, and I didn't even do that great of a job IMO. Point is, I agree that the nonchalant, almost flippant attitude about how simple it is to get properly groomed seems tone deaf at best. You're going to pay dearly, whether it's time/money/effort or a combo. And on the dress... it's doubly (triply) hard if you are size 12+.


Since we are dissecting the topic of grooming, question for @Larinda McRaven - what's your opinion (and judges in general, if you have insight) on shoe heel height, especially in Latin? I came down from a 2.75" to a 2.2" heel (same style, just lower) a couple years ago because I was feeling it in my knees. I have small feet (size 6) so a full 3" was never really in the cards anyways. Also, what about straps across court shoes (my pro is convinced that judges hate these, but I see them a lot, even on pros. And yes, I have them as well - part of the satin shoe, not the clear plastics).

 

[RiseNFall]

I have literally been run into on the competition floor by men (teachers no less) who made this decision. They didn't have contacts (for whatever reason, cost, comfort, laziness, I don't know). And I would see them take their glasses off for their heats. And then these same leaders would run into other couples because they can't see so well on the floor. I think that they felt that wearing glasses was a bigger risk than the possibility of poor floorcraft due to bad vision.

My teacher's vision is pretty poor without his glasses and he generally just takes them off to compete. (I think he has tried contacts, but doesn't use them, at least for pro-am.). His floor craft is excellent all the same. Thus, those leaders who are running into you likely can't use their poor vision as an excuse.

 

[IndyLady]

I think the glasses situation depends on the person.

I wear glasses in daily life, but I dance without them. My vision isn't really that bad, and I find the frames distracting in a dance context (since I'm trying to perceive a wider visual field than normal), so nbd.

OTOH, I know a couple people who can barely see without them, or otherwise are definitely disadvantaged. I was actually surprised to see a friend at a recent comp without them, her pro must have finally convinced her it was a necessity.

With regards to leads and floorcraft... I'm guessing the pro who had no issues dances all the time or often w/o his glasses so he is used to it. My speculation is that raindance's bumper car leads only ever take their glasses off at actual comps, so they are not used to the feeling (blurry vision) and it ends up being very disorienting. (This is one of my life philosophy soapboxes, that to be good at something you actually have to *do* it a lot, i.e. spend time practicing on a frequent basis).

 

[raindance]

My teacher's vision is pretty poor without his glasses and he generally just takes them off to compete. (I think he has tried contacts, but doesn't use them, at least for pro-am.). His floor craft is excellent all the same. Thus, those leaders who are running into you likely can't use their poor vision as an excuse.

It is possible that the vision issue is not contributing to the floorcraft issue for some. But for anyone with a floorcraft issue, if I am another dancer on the floor, I'd love to know that at least they can see well. At least one of the leaders I have experienced collisions with was well known in local circles for bad vision contributing to bad floorcraft. Just looking at his face without glasses you could see he was squinting and struggling to see!

 

[fineshrine]

The heel height thing is really dependent on the size (or more accurately the length) of your foot. I'm UK size 4 (a US 6) and used to dance in over a three inch heel and it was definitely too high for me to actually use my feet properly. Any steps where your heels should be off the ground... It looked like I was being lazy with my feet, when actually the shoes just left me nowhere to go. And I struggled getting a good hip action going. I've dropped down to 2.5 and it's so so much better, and still looks like an appropriately high heel for the length of my foot.