Steps for Tango v. Vals v. Milonga

[Peaches]

OK. Stupid question. Could someone please describe the differences in steps for tango, v. vals, v. milonga?

I ask because of a comment made in another thread. Personally, I've never noticed that much of a difference between the steps that are used. Yes, there are some steps that are used more in one dance relative to the others. Yes, there are some steps that just won't work. But a separate category of steps for milonga, or vals? I haven't quite found that.

Admittedly, maybe I haven't been paying that much attention. I tend to pay more attention to the music if I've got a good lead. If I don't have a good lead, I generally find that the vocabulary of steps isn't that broad. Or, maybe I'm just too much of a beginner to have been shown distinct differences. Or, maybe it's a factor of needing to find a better teacher.

But could someone please describe the differences, or give me some examples of steps that are milonga steps, or vals steps? Thank you!

 

[Tanguera]

No difference about the steps, just about the style

 

[Peaches]

See, that was my understanding as well.

You've got one complete body of steps in AT. Within that universe, there are subsets of steps that are more or less suited to the different dances. Overlap is common. (In my mind, it ends up looking something like a venn diagram.)

What has me questioning is AATanguera's post from another thread (the fun for beginners thread), where she talks about each dance being a separate animal with separate steps. That's got me confused.

 

[Tanguera]

I didn't read that thread yet, but AT, vals and milonga are not "separate animals"... and as you don't use each step you know into each tango music (since they simply wouldn't fit), you just don't dance all the steps into the three dances


You could say that's only a matter of "musicality".

 

[Twirly]

I'll be interested to hear more about this too. I don't see it as different dances or dances using different steps, but as you say more of a style thing and using some steps and not others. It's true that dancing milonga or vals with someone who just "dances tango to milonga/vals" is boring.

Maybe using traspié and other ways of playing with the rhythm in milonga could be seen as something separate, I'm not sure? In the end it's all leading and following pivots, steps in three directions and weight changes, and using the music.

Anyway, what do the rest of you think?

 

[FTL]

What has me questioning is AATanguera's post from another thread (the fun for beginners thread), where she talks about each dance being a separate animal with separate steps. That's got me confused.

I had the same impression when I started milonga but not anymore. Steps in milonga and vals are generally more compact, otherwise, it is essentially the same as tango. True, some steps are used more often in milonga and vals.

 

[Ampster]

Fundamentally, the steps are the same. The difference would be in the delivery and the application of the appropriate step combinations. You basically use the same body of work.

Here's how I do it, IMHO:

1. Tango: Intense and heavy, dramatic & expressive
2. Vals: More flowing, tango combinations danced to Vals time (use step combinations that work)
3. Milonga: Shorter quicker tango steps and simplified in order to keep up with the more light hearted music

 

[Steve Pastor]

I glad you all jumped in on this.
It seems like milonga gets a bad rap. It is faster music, and lots of folks want to step between the beats between the two accented beats per bar. (I'm weak in the music education side, so please correct me if I've got the 2/4 time thing wrong. Leading crosses is one way of tryiing to get that extra step in there.
But you don't have to run around constantly doing traspie. The dance can be plenty varied when you just step on the two main beats. If it is a slower milonga, I put in more traspie.
Last week at the "my" country western place, one of the instructors taught the "one step". There for several months I was dancing milonga to the really fast two steps. I would do traspie to walk into and out of the "crossed system", bit rarely aked my partner to do it.
Same deal as in milonga.
Another reason people may find it "a different dance" is that specific combinations of steps are often taught for milonga. And those patterns then seem to be milonga, not tango, and you have another dance to learn.
I did not agree with AATanguera's post, but didn't want to get into a discussion about it.
I'm not sure she would think what I do is "milonga", since her definition seems restrictive. But I dance to milonga, and I usually have a hell of a good time doing it.
At a certain point in our tango education, hopefully we get to the point where we realize that it is our tango. And as long as we can find someone to dance it with us, and don't run into, step on, or kick other couples, it's as valid as anyone else's tango.

 

[Twirly]

At a certain point in our tango education, hopefully we get to the point where we realize that it is our tango. And as long as we can find someone to dance it with us, and don't run into, step on, or kick other couples, it's as valid as anyone else's tango.

Good point.

I was just thinking though, didn't milonga come before tango? Is that original milonga the same as we are dancing today? Then shouldn't it really be seen as a separate dance? Hmm. I can feel myself getting into all sorts of thoughts now about what makes a dance a dance and not just a "style". Kind of like what makes a language a language and not a dialect?

 

[fun]

Fundamentally, the steps are the same. The difference would be in the delivery and the application of the appropriate step combinations. You basically use the same body of work.

Here's how I do it, IMHO:

1. Tango: Intense and heavy, dramatic & expressive
2. Vals: More flowing, tango combinations danced to Vals time (use step combinations that work)
3. Milonga: Shorter quicker tango steps and simplified in order to keep up with the more light hearted music

Hi there!
I do agree with all of you - especially Ampster who added that there is a tendency to dance different moves to different rhythms

However, I personally have even given up, a long time ago, thinking that there are only 3 rhythms :Tango Tango, Tango Milonga, Tango Vals. The reality is simply that we can find elements of those 3 sometimes in one single song! - especially when dancing to post D'arienzo music and even more so to tangofusions like Piazolla or electronic tangos not to speak of all the alterantive/non tangos we neotango dancers dance to

In many tangos there are moments when not only "Tango Tango steps" but also a few "milonga-ish" steps fit well - or some "valse-ish" fluid/round moves make sense. Open your "eyes" try it out and forget for a moment to worry about what your teachers said or what anyone else is expecting.. and try it out - experiment - stick to what seems to work and avoid what doesn't - talk to each other - especially your partner but also other fellow dancers about their experiences when experimenting with new music ..

Instead of trying to squeeze the song you hear into one of those 3 categories I find it more meaningful to teach our students to learn to interprete slow moments, fast moments, fade outs, accentuation, strong beats, no beats/just melody - with suitable moves i.e. ways of doing tango moves. If you have tools to do that you simply ...well, dance -irrespective of the category of music you are dancing to.

We have just recently finished a set of 3 weeks of teaching musicality covering many of these themes. See www.funkytango.com for our actual themes should you be interested.

Using the 3 traditional categories of Tango might help some beginners but is not necessary for a tango dancer who has already the ability to interpret any music by simply adapting and chosing the best moves at that moment.

In all other dances you have to decide what "dance" it is i.e. matches best - if you can dance Argentine Tango well you simply dance and tune into the music - any music/rhythm or melody - this is why some consider Argentine Tango the King of all of partner dances

Happy dancing,

Klaus

 

[FTL]

Does anyone dance candombe? The music sounds like salsa and the steps are similar to tango. I don't dance it and have only seen it once. I might be wrong.

 

[Twirly]

I think people usually dance milonga to candombe. A lot of them probably think "oh, milonga" even though it's actually a candombe (I know I usually do!). Again, different feel and style but the same dance???

 

[Peaches]

Ah, yes, candombe. I know of it, and have looked up the history (but don't remember much of it), but don't know enough to be able to identify it.

And then, let's not forget cayengue!

 

[Peaches]

But I dance to milonga, and I usually have a hell of a good time doing it.
At a certain point in our tango education, hopefully we get to the point where we realize that it is our tango. And as long as we can find someone to dance it with us, and don't run into, step on, or kick other couples, it's as valid as anyone else's tango.

I wholeheartedly agree with you.

So long as everyone's having a good time, and no one is getting hurt, it's all good in my book. Just keep dancing and enjoy the ride. It's dance...it's connection...it's expression...who can say what is right or wrong? There's no wrong way to enjoy art.

But this reminds me of another AT debate I've seen come up (OK, so I've started it once or twice ), the question of, "What makes AT, AT?"

 

[Peaches]

Because it might help focus the thread/question, here is the quote that caught my attention from the other thread. THIS is what's got me confuzzled..

"Although the fundamentals of tango and many tango steps are used in milonga and vals, these are distinctly different dances, and quite frankly, it just ain’t milonga or vals if you merely do tango steps to a milonga or vals. You can simply march your way through a milonga or do tango steps to milonga, but that’s just boring, and it ain’t milonga. The repertoire of distinctly milonga steps is so vast that the best milonga dancers never have to resort to using tango steps." [AATanguera]​

???

Maybe I should see if I can find a "milonga specialist"... Then again, maybe not. If I was to add yet another teacher to the "payrolls" I think DH would kill me! ;-)