Student / Studio Rights and Responsibilities

[toothlesstiger]

Starting this new thread, since it was off topic where we were discussing.

Some had indicated there should be a "students' bill of rights".

My contention is that since this is an agreement freely entered into by both parties (student and studio), none is necessary. We need one in the sphere of government because, well, the government can force you to do what it wants at gunpoint, not to put to fine a point on it.

At any point, student and/or studio are free to terminate the relationship, subject to contractual obligations. In other words, if you don't like the way a studio does things, vote with your feet. If you can't find a studio that does things the way you think they should, well, that's a great opportunity for an entrepreneur to either make some money or learn a lesson in economics.

To pygmalion's point about the

pareto principle,

also known as the 80/20 rule, it's not just the students that have rights. And in my studio students have rights with respect to each other as well.

In my hypothetical studio, the "bill of rights", known in this case as studio policies, are there to create a safe and productive environment for all the students and teachers individually and with respect to each other, and, one would hope, such transparency and predictability (customer service) would help the studio make more money.

 

[DerekWeb]

The "bill of rights" is a serious historical document in the American context. Lets not cheapen it by throwing the term around willy nilly.

 

[toothlesstiger]

The "bill of rights" is a serious historical document in the American context. Lets not cheapen it by throwing the term around willy nilly.

Before we get too sensitive here, I took that phrase from a number of posts that referred to it, in the interest of making this thread easy to find and reference. You will notice that in the opening post, I indicated my preference to change this to "policies", since I agree that a "bill of rights" is only applicable in the context of people subject to a potentially coercive entity, such as the government. However, our own government is happy to toss that phrase around, referring to things like "consumers' bill of rights" and "patients' bill of rights". You may not like it, but that's the direction our language has taken.

 

[Jananananana]

The "bill of rights" is a serious historical document in the American context. Lets not cheapen it by throwing the term around willy nilly.

The historical document is actually the United States Bill of Rights.
A bill of rights is a generic term: http://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Bill_of_rights

 

[pygmalion]

Dance students have a right:

• To a lesson experience that is both educational and enjoyable.
• To patient and respectful treatment by the instructors.
• To public access of studio rules, including dress codes.

In terms of student rights, I really like these first three bullets from canismajor41's proposal. Still pondering other possible additions ...

 

[debmc]

I think a student's/teacher's bill of rights is a great idea, if only to give us students guidelines for what we should reasonably expect. We have "patient's bill of rights" at the hospital, that lets patients know what they should expect during their hospital stay...so I think the whole bill of rights thing can be extended to any area deemed necessary. Here are some more:

Students should have their lessons started on time, or no more than 10 mins late.
Students should show up to lessons on time, or have their lesson cut short, to assure that the following students gets their lesson started on time.
Pertinent texts/emails from students to pros and from pros to students should recieve a reply within 24- 48 hours.
Students should pay on time and not wait until the pro has to ask.
Pros should submit entries on time to all competitions and not wait until the students have to remind them.

That's just a few.....and I am looking at both the student and the pro's perspective, so it is not one sided.

 

[toothlesstiger]

That goes back to the idea that there are rights and responsibilities on both sides. You are very generous with 10 minutes late. If I've paid for the time, I expect to get all of the time I paid for.

I would add to that list that the student has the right to the teacher's undivided attention for the full time allotted, i.e., no side conversations, no lengthy, chatty greetings with some long lost student or fellow teacher, etc.

 

[canismajor41]

Great additions debmc and toothlesstiger! Another are two more I would like to add:

Instructors should not contest or criticize another teacher's instruction while either teacher is with a student.

This studio is a place of business. Instructors and students should leave personal matters at the door.

You would think this is obvious, but....

 

[JANATHOME]

Further to entries on time... enought time between entries and payment due to give student more than a few days notice of what the cost will be.

 

[fascination]

I completely agree on the personal matters....in my mind this is one of the huge factors that de-railed my first experience very badly...way too much personal sharing ...mutually....

I cannot even remember a time when I have asked my current pro how his week was ....while I wish him the best and care about his family, I am aware that this is a road down which I don't ever care to go again...and when he asks, as a courtesy, at the beginning of the lesson, about what is new or how life is, I keep it brief....we are there to make me a better dancer....to my mind, much confusion can be avoided if that line never gets blurred ...I am happy for anyone who is in a scenario that works otherwise ...but, to my mind it's a crap shoot....

 

[fascination]

hmmm...I guess I come from a different angle on entries...I prefer to do my own...former pro did not excel at this... so it became commonplace for me to do my own...if I could get the financial info online or if he had the package and entry info he would give it to me...so the way it rolls for me now is that I think about what I want to do for the year over the holiday break...I list some preferences for comps and there are others that I know he will go to...I basically state how many I can go to and then we wait to see how his schedule and other students schedules shake out...then, whether or not I know we are going, before the deadline for a comp in question, I will submit what I want to do and figure my own cost...and give it to him...that way he can take it into consideration ...if we go, we go...if we don't, we don't....I would prefer, if there is a "significant" difference in cost for being on time with entries, that they be on time...otherwise I don't much care as long as I am still able to enter the important events that I want to dance...now, if THAT doesn't happen because there is no more room and they can't add me without pushing the event to a quarter or something, then I may elect not to go to that comp...and I have done that in the past with previous pro as he had the entries in time and didn't send them...shrug...I think it is hard to get specific on this one but I do think a good guideline would be to have clear and transparent comp entry processes and procedures....I like that cost is very clear cut where I currently dance.... there are no surprises... I get how sometimes a pro cannot enter in a timely fashion because some students are on the fence...but, I would like for every student to simply know the date for which when they need to decide about a comp and to know that if they don't know by then, they are not going...so that I don't have to pay a late fee because Sally couldn't figure it out

 

[3wishes]

I sooooooo agree Fascination.

 

[wooh]

I have the right to take my money elsewhere. Don't need any other rights.
They have the right to turn away my money. They don't need any other rights.

 

[pygmalion]

I hear ya, wooh. The whole money part of it is important, and something both sides should be cognizant of, IMO.


But, to me only, saying that I don't need any rights other than voting with my pocketbook is like saying that, if things don't work out perfectly, married people can always get divorced. True, they can, but that's not the goal, is it?

Surely there's some middle ground between things being the way I prefer and my walking out the door. And maybe student/studio relationships can run more smoothly if there are mutually accepted ground rules up front.

 

[wooh]

I don't like "bills of rights" because people are quick to list their "rights." They aren't so quick to remember the responsibilities that go with those rights.