Studio showcase economics

[danceronice]

But surely the students have to pay for the lessons to prepare them for the showcase.

Yes, but like pygmalion says...you'd take the lessons anyway. I actually HAVE done showcases with Chris, and I don't even think we added much that wouldn't be legal in the regular competition routines and I never added any more lessons than I'd have taken anyway. I think a few bits at the beginning and the end and the rest was all what we'd be working on for bronze Rhythm anyway. I never added any lessons, I don't now with NP (most I've done is the coach/choreo, and we did that at my normal lesson time, so even that wasn't an add-on except the coaching cost.) The cost of lessons is the cost of lessons--that's not a showcase expense, it's a normal cost of dancing expense.

Now I realize, I have by mostly sheer dumb luck had two studios in a row where at least MY pros do not put a huge amount of pressure on you to spend extra money. Opportunities are presented to me, I can say yes or no, if I say no, that's just what it is. I have bigger problem scheduling things around work than getting pushed to spend lots of money at once.

 

[danceronice]

In the example above, a boat-load of stuff that would be of value to some and of no value to others. That's why you get to choose.

Yes, and doing the math...if it's 15 privates, 4 hours of coaching, and the showcase itself...going with the rates I'm used to, that would break down to $100 for the showcase, $500 for the coaching (that's what four sessions with the coach I just had would be), and 15 lessons at about $94/lesson, which is a bit high but for all I know the going rate for NYC/NJ for a good teacher. If you got 20 regular lessons, that's $70 a lesson and a bargain at most places. Once it's broken down it's actually not a bad deal, figuring that the privates are going to be helpful long-term anyway. Obviously a LOT to cough up at once, but not as much as the total would make it seem.

 

[tanya_the_dancer]

In the example above, a boat-load of stuff that would be of value to some and of no value to others. That's why you get to choose.

I guess my beef would be when a boat-load of stuff is added without being able to opt out of it. I.e. in one of those examples the studio hired a makeup/hair professional for the performers, and added the cost to the "registration fee". What if I can do my own hair/makeup just fine and don't want to pay someone to do it for me? If it was available "a la carte" for those who want to have their hair/makeup professionally done, that's one thing. If it's forced upon everyone, whether they feel such expense is justified or not, that's totally another.

 

[pygmalion]

I guess my beef would be when a boat-load of stuff is added without being able to opt out of it. I.e. in one of those examples the studio hired a makeup/hair professional for the performers, and added the cost to the "registration fee". What if I can do my own hair/makeup just fine and don't want to pay someone to do it for me? If it was available "a la carte" for those who want to have their hair/makeup professionally done, that's one thing. If it's forced upon everyone, whether they feel such expense is justified or not, that's totally another.

Gotcha.

I'm African American and rarely, if ever, allow anyone who's not A-A to do my hair. So that's a line item I would probably not be taking advantage of either. lol.

I just think of stuff like that as the biscuit. You know how, when you go out to those fried chicken take out places, they insist on giving you a biscuit? I don't eat biscuits, unless they're my Mom's. So, a billion years ago, I did the math, and figured that the convenience of everything else I was getting was offsetting that biscuit in the trash.

Just sayin.

 

[tanya_the_dancer]

Gotcha.

I'm African American and rarely, if ever, allow anyone who's not A-A to do my hair. So that's a line item I would probably not be taking advantage of either. lol.

I just think of stuff like that as the biscuit. You know how, when you go out to those fried chicken take out places, they insist on giving you a biscuit? I don't eat biscuits, unless they're my Mom's. So, a billion years ago, I did the math, and figured that the convenience of everything else I was getting was offsetting that biscuit in the trash.

Just sayin.

That depends on how much the line item adds. In my case, last time I did a showcase at the place which does a catered buffet with it, I paid them something like $40. Now suppose they forced me to buy a DVD (add another $25), and forced me to pay for a hair&makeup person - last time I had my hair done professionally at a comp, it cost $130 to do both, and I heard the prices went up since then, but let's use those prices. So now the price is $40 + $25 + $130 = $195. Now the price is nearly 5 times more and the unwanted item accounts for the bulk of the price. I would not do the showcase under these circumstances. If they just forced the DVD, so that the showcase is now $65 with the DVD included, I could live with that, even if after I was done with it, I decided that I don't want to watch the DVD ever again or show it to anyone else.

 

[pygmalion]

Because for most of us, a regular syllabus routine with one drop and one do-dad doesn't equal a show...

I also wasn't paying two grand for the privilege. But that wasn't my point. My point was that you're not doing all that much extra. You're taking the lessons anyway, to work toward your dance goals. And, every so often, you get to show off what you've learned. It's fun, but it's not a gigantic deal, IMO.

I wasn't counting doodads, but I see your doodad and I raise ya.

 

[pygmalion]

That depends on how much the line item adds. In my case, last time I did a showcase at the place which does a catered buffet with it, I paid them something like $40. Now suppose they forced me to buy a DVD (add another $25), and forced me to pay for a hair&makeup person - last time I had my hair done professionally at a comp, it cost $130 to do both, and I heard the prices went up since then, but let's use those prices. So now the price is $40 + $25 + $130 = $195. Now the price is nearly 5 times more and the unwanted item accounts for the bulk of the price. I would not do the showcase under these circumstances. If they just forced the DVD, so that the showcase is now $65 with the DVD included, I could live with that, even if after I was done with it, I decided that I don't want to watch the DVD ever again or show it to anyone else.

Gotcha. That's one expensive biscuit. That's when you have to do the math and figure out what it's worth to you.

In the sample case we're using, I'd be okay with it, even if all I got was the lessons and coaching, because that's what lessons and coaching cost. But I understand that someone else might see the same numbers and draw a different conclusion.

Caveat emptor.

 

[tanya_the_dancer]

Gotcha. That's one expensive biscuit. That's when you have to do the math and figure out what it's worth to you.

In the sample case we're using, I'd be okay with it, even if all I got was the lessons and coaching, because that's what lessons and coaching cost. But I understand that someone else might see the same numbers and draw a different conclusion.

Caveat emptor.

That depends. Using TC's pricing, at the going instruction rates in our area, the remaining line items still account for big enough portion of the price, that I personally would rather just take 15 - 20 lessons and use the remainder of the funds towards another competition. But to each his own.

 

[pygmalion]

Exactly. To each his own.

And you're right. The example is taken out of context, since none of us knows where TC was or what the going rates were when this package was printed.

 

[pygmalion]

I guess I should add, though, that I think there's a difference between, "That's not a good value for the money," and "I don't want to pay that much." "I want to pay that much but can't," as fasc has pointed out, is a different scenario that can be heart-breaking.

You know what the going rates are where you are and this package wouldn't fly, on your turf. That's fine. I am a big proponent for knowing what stuff actually costs.

OTOH (or is it the same hand?) Know what stuff actually costs. If private lessons cost $80/hour and coaching costs $125, that's what they cost. The fact that I think that's ridiculous and they should be less than $70 each doesn't change reality.

Same deal with showcases. If I used to pay X and am now being asked to pay 2X, find out why it's now 2X. If I buy into the reasons why it's more expensive and think it's worthwhile, pay the money. If I don't believe the reasons or don't value the showcase 2X worth, then don't pay and find another, less expensive way. Those are the choices.

 

[danceronice]

OTOH (or is it the same hand?) Know what stuff actually costs. If private lessons cost $80/hour and coaching costs $125, that's what they cost. The fact that I think that's ridiculous and they should be less than $70 each doesn't change reality.

Same deal with showcases. If I used to pay X and am now being asked to pay 2X, find out why it's now 2X. If I buy into the reasons why it's more expensive and think it's worthwhile, pay the money. If I don't believe the reasons or don't value the showcase 2X worth, then don't pay and find another, less expensive way. Those are the choices.

It's amazing how hard it can be to remember that you CAN ask "Why" and say "no", though. That's another element to it. It can take some work to realize that if they area decent teacher or studio, they are not going to dump you if you say "I don't think I want to do this showcase, thanks anyway." Though it's a great lesson to learn (I know an astonishing amount of horse people, particularly in hunters, who have a real problem saying no or questioning the kind of fees and services that are called "routine" for showing. After having done dance now, I find myself saying "Why don't you just say no? You're paying them, not the other way around.")

 

[tanya_the_dancer]

I guess I should add, though, that I think there's a difference between, "That's not a good value for the money," and "I don't want to pay that much." "I want to pay that much but can't," as fasc has pointed out, is a different scenario that can be heart-breaking.

You know what the going rates are where you are and this package wouldn't fly, on your turf. That's fine. I am a big proponent for knowing what stuff actually costs.

Exactly. I think it's very important to know what you are charged for and what is good value for the money and making an informed decision based on that. I really dislike the attitude which calls for just paying the asking price for whatever without validating it.

 

[Terpsichorean Clod]

Yup, I have been in studio showcases held in Theaters and Performance Halls with beautifully crafted backdrops, spotlights, dressing rooms, makeup artists, tech runthroughs for sound and lighting, and quality printed programs. And I have been in studio showcases in a studio with nothing but a dude on a microphone introducing us... and even talking during our number.... They are many levels of shows.

I need to reiterate that the $2165 I quoted was for one of the former. And not just some hole-in-the-wall with some chairs, an elevated surface, and curtains. A really nice theater. In San Francisco, where real estate is not cheap.

 

[Terpsichorean Clod]

Yes, and doing the math...if it's 15 privates, 4 hours of coaching, and the showcase itself...going with the rates I'm used to, that would break down to $100 for the showcase, $500 for the coaching (that's what four sessions with the coach I just had would be), and 15 lessons at about $94/lesson, which is a bit high but for all I know the going rate for NYC/NJ for a good teacher. If you got 20 regular lessons, that's $70 a lesson and a bargain at most places. Once it's broken down it's actually not a bad deal, figuring that the privates are going to be helpful long-term anyway. Obviously a LOT to cough up at once, but not as much as the total would make it seem.

It's 15 hours of lessons - not 15 lessons.

 

[pygmalion]

Yeah. That's why one of the very first things I asked was "What is a showcase?" It's pretty clear that these are not apples to apples comparisons being made.