Superstition in Tango

opendoor said:
Tango has so much to do with convention, customs, tradition, habits top down to the tiptoes. (Tiptoes turned inwards are my problem, sometimes) So, isn´t there room for irrational customs? My first TA teacher, an uruguayian, told me that one should listen to Adios Muchachos devoutly and should not dance. And he told me too, "Leave women behind that will not understand this". So, to my mind, if one dips into this culture one should accept all the irrational customs, as well.

Greetings
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I was thinking along the lines of superstition, rather than being educated about a culture.

I don't think I've had a single educated person throw Argentine tradition at me at an American milonga. (Sorry if that sounds harsh.) I always get the sense that the person googled "milonga" the night before and is off on a mission to impress people.
 
Believe me I trust in your opion and experience: so, ok, in other words, as I treated the woman (s.a.) was smart-alecky.
 
opendoor said:
Believe me I trust in your opion and experience: so, ok, in other words, as I treated the woman (s.a.) was smart-alecky.
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I am sorry if it came across that way! I did not mean to say that, at all. :(

Please feel free to use this smile when replying to me: :bkick:
 
opendoor said:
Tango has so much to do with convention, customs, tradition, habits top down to the tiptoes. (Tiptoes turned inwards are my problem, sometimes) So, isn´t there room for irrational customs? My first TA teacher, an uruguayian, told me that one should listen to Adios Muchachos devoutly and should not dance. And he told me too, "Leave women behind that will not understand this". So, to my mind, if one dips into this culture one should accept all the irrational customs, as well.
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I was also told that Piazzola was listening music, and to never dance to it. To which I say a resounding "BS"! I agree about accepting the customs of a culture, but draw the line when it comes to whims and social norms. Thsi is not so much culture as it is custom, which, as you said, could be really irrational, especially when performed outside of the home culture. If I were in BsAs, perhaps I would respect the idea, and act accordingly. Yet, I see no reason why I need to do that, say, here in the US where it means nothing.
 
Angel HI said:
I was also told that Piazzola was listening music, and to never dance to it. To which I say a resounding "BS"! I agree about accepting the customs of a culture, but draw the line when it comes to whims and social norms. Thsi is not so much culture as it is custom, which, as you said, could be really irrational, especially when performed outside of the home culture. If I were in BsAs, perhaps I would respect the idea, and act accordingly. Yet, I see no reason why I need to do that, say, here in the US where it means nothing.
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Quite!! Can you, at a milonga, tell/see/feel the difference between those that come armed with a Handbook and dance their tango like something akin to a military operation and those that just want to get down and get widdit? I can.
 
Absolutely. Same in BR. many need to learn that dance is, I like to say, 30% technique (the handbook), and 70% feeling.
 
Certain customs may be OK (cabaceo, etc.), as long as they facilitate dancing. Others just don't make any sense at all.

It's a little bit like certain religious proscriptions...they may have had good reasons for those back in the day, but nowadays they're followed pretty much solely for the sake of following them.
 
The cyber tango post was interesting. It won't change what songs I do or don't like, but I might view differently the next guy I see grabbing his own crotch... ;)
 
Heather2007 said:
Quite!! Can you, at a milonga, tell/see/feel the difference between those that come armed with a Handbook and dance their tango like something akin to a military operation and those that just want to get down and get widdit? I can.
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'Get Down and Get Widdit' I think has legs as a milonga/funk franchise - kewl :cool: :D
 
opendoor said:
Yesterday in a small milonga, they played Adios Muchachos. No one cared about it. I break off dancing and told the woman that this was a non-danceable tango. She showed no understanding for this custom, at all. Then she asked a bit angry a man who stood beside the dance floor why he wasn´t dancing to this piece. He shrugged his shoulder and then the woman went away.

What is your experience?
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I'm still wondering why one of you didn't just tell the woman the reason for the custom. Just saying it was "non-danceable" probably led her to believe you thought that it was not musically danceable and she had no idea you meant it was a social custom that had nothing to do with the musicality of the piece.

If in her mind, the music itself was easily danceable, then she probably figured either you were a bad leader/ dancer if you couldn't figure out how to move to it, or that you specifically just wanted to stop dancing with her. A little conversation might have gone a long way. If she had no idea about the custom and there were ANY other people dancing, she would have have no way to know it wasn't personal. If no one was dancing, then I would think she would question the whole thing further or appreciate an explanation.

Personally, I don't think I've ever heard of this custom either. I doubt the song has ever even been played at a milonga I've attended in the States because I rarely hear songs that have any vocal track. (many milongas around here play alot of neo anyway) It must not have been played at any milonga I attended in BA either, because every tanda was extremely crowded. There was no song for which the majority of people sat out. Everyone who could jam onto the floor always did.
 
Angel HI said:
I was also told that Piazzola was listening music, and to never dance to it. To which I say a resounding "BS"! I agree about accepting the customs of a culture, but draw the line when it comes to whims and social norms. Thsi is not so much culture as it is custom, which, as you said, could be really irrational, especially when performed outside of the home culture. If I were in BsAs, perhaps I would respect the idea, and act accordingly. Yet, I see no reason why I need to do that, say, here in the US where it means nothing.
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But Piazzola being not the most danceable music is not a custom, it is (as far as such things go) true. I have danced to his music, and in general i feel that the way his music is set up (shifts in rhythms, moods, volume) is not very supportive of dancing. Observing people who dance to his music seems to me to support this - they tend to simply ignore major features of the pieces and use it just as a vaguely rhythmic background.

So i only rarely tend to dance to him anyway (too much emotional whiplash), but after this thread i will not dance to adios noninos anymore - i didn't know the history of this song, but now it would make me uncomfortable.

And Adios Muchachos - well, the question is if the idea that dancing to this to the last song gardel sang before he died in a plane crash is acceptable to you or not. Many people had a strong reaction to this song because it reminds them that they loved gardel, and that they lost him before his time. Kinda like if everybody would connect the same song with the assassination of JFK.

Would you be ok with a milonga in playing the star spangled banner as a alternative tango song? A Requiem? The internationale? Dixie?

But then i might weird - i always wonder what people are thinking when they use a Dies Irae as background music. And it makes me vaguely uncomfortable.

Gssh
 
In general, things like this don't phase me. Music is meant to express, to move, to inspire, to remember... Any of it, all of it, none of it is valid. No one can ever tell you that how a song makes you feel is wrong. So if "Adios Nonino" inspires me, and I'm inspired to movement and connection with another human...I will act on that assuming there's a leader who feels the same. I refuse to put something in a box like that. It's not meant as disrespect (And, let's face it, both the men are dead and gone...who, truly, can get insulted? I'm not spitting on anyone's grave.)

As for the "Star Spangled Banner" or some other thing...it doesn't move me to dance like that. But, if it did, I would. I can see doing a beautiful, respectful dance to any number of gorgeous religious pieces...because that is how the music moves me, and inspires me to feel.

Edit to add: Although if anyone played the theme from St. Elmo's Fire, I most certainly couldn't dance to it. I've got horrible memories associated with it, and it makes me cry every time. But...to each their own. Regarding others' reaction to dancing to "Adios Muchachos," at some point in time the truest form of accepting is moving on...IMHO...
 
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