swing etiquette question/problem

[luh]

hi
I was reading some other posts/threads, and some question popped into my mind. it was about followers refusing a offered dance.
It's not usual to get rejected over here, though, it happened more often lately. Till now, if the reason was a good one, like that she was totally out of breath, and couldn't anymore, I'll probably ask her later if i meet her again. If she tells me that she is busy talking to someone, and we could dance later, I'm waiting for her to ask, because she didn't accepted the dance when i asked for it. Is that a correct way of handling it? If a lady plainly refuses an offer, i normally don't ask her anymore, is that ok? Would it fit to the swing etiquette?
I'm really looking forward to your answers!
luh

 

[Jmatthew]

I think I'd ask twice, but not any more than that. After that she obviousely knows I want to dance, and can find me if she really wants a dance with me.

 

[lynn]

luh, i think you're handling it quite well. The only situation that would have me ask twice is if the person has a really good reason for declining the dance - ie, reserved the dance for someone else, needs a break, sore feet, out of breath...etc. Now, if she says she's busy having a conversation, doesn't that signal that she's not interested in dancing?? Btw, it's generally not a good idea to ask someone who's in the middle of a conversation (unless they're constantly eyeing the dance floor or their body language indicates that they're just waiting for people to ask, it's almost a sure thing that they're not going to ditch their friend in the middle of a conversation).

 

[luh]

luh, i think you're handling it quite well. The only situation that would have me ask twice is if the person has a really good reason for declining the dance - ie, reserved the dance for someone else, needs a break, sore feet, out of breath...etc. Now, if she says she's busy having a conversation, doesn't that signal that she's not interested in dancing?? Btw, it's generally not a good idea to ask someone who's in the middle of a conversation (unless they're constantly eyeing the dance floor or their body language indicates that they're just waiting for people to ask, it's almost a sure thing that they're not going to ditch their friend in the middle of a conversation).

i thought i said that in the first post. I do ask people with good reasons, (sore feet, needs break, whatever) a second time. Because i can see the reason.

Normally everyone is talking in the breaks. So normally i try to not just ask plainly for a dance, but put it in a sentence like "may i interrupt this philosophical conversation for a dance?". Because i normally would think that people go to dance places to dance, not to chat all night. But that might be just my way of thinking.

luh

 

[huey]

It's not usual to get rejected over here, though, it happened more often lately. Till now, if the reason was a good one, like that she was totally out of breath, and couldn't anymore, I'll probably ask her later if i meet her again. If she tells me that she is busy talking to someone, and we could dance later, I'm waiting for her to ask, because she didn't accepted the dance when i asked for it. Is that a correct way of handling it? If a lady plainly refuses an offer, i normally don't ask her anymore, is that ok? Would it fit to the swing etiquette?
I'm really looking forward to your answers!
luh

I don't think it's a question of etiquette, other than in the case of etiquette for the follower who rejects (it's bad etiquette, for example, to dance with someone else straight after saying 'I'm sitting this one out').

I have a problem knowing what the best course of action is after a rejection that isn't clear ("I'm sitting this one out", "I'm tired", "Not at the moment", etc). If I see someone dancing with someone else soon after one of these statements, then I reluctantly conclude that they don't want to dance with me.

I am also learning to use watch a woman's body language for signals. If she's standing, moving her feet, looking at me, smiling etc, she's more likely to say yes. If she's sitting down, looking in the other direction, she's more likely to say no. Sounds obvious, but I sometimes try to watch these clear signs and ask the women who are likely to say yes. This minimises the risk of rejection.

 

[luh]

It's not usual to get rejected over here, though, it happened more often lately. Till now, if the reason was a good one, like that she was totally out of breath, and couldn't anymore, I'll probably ask her later if i meet her again. If she tells me that she is busy talking to someone, and we could dance later, I'm waiting for her to ask, because she didn't accepted the dance when i asked for it. Is that a correct way of handling it? If a lady plainly refuses an offer, i normally don't ask her anymore, is that ok? Would it fit to the swing etiquette?
I'm really looking forward to your answers!
luh

I don't think it's a question of etiquette, other than in the case of etiquette for the follower who rejects (it's bad etiquette, for example, to dance with someone else straight after saying 'I'm sitting this one out').

I have a problem knowing what the best course of action is after a rejection that isn't clear ("I'm sitting this one out", "I'm tired", "Not at the moment", etc). If I see someone dancing with someone else soon after one of these statements, then I reluctantly conclude that they don't want to dance with me.

I am also learning to use watch a woman's body language for signals. If she's standing, moving her feet, looking at me, smiling etc, she's more likely to say yes. If she's sitting down, looking in the other direction, she's more likely to say no. Sounds obvious, but I sometimes try to watch these clear signs and ask the women who are likely to say yes. This minimises the risk of rejection.

i don't know, that probably won't work for me. It's not unusual, that when you leave the dancefloor you sit down somewhere until someone asks you for a dance. Normally they also chat. So i can't get those signals. If i get the answer that they are too tired right now, because they just danced, that's okay, if they just tell me they are tired, i usually don't think that they'll dance again soon. But if someone really is that rude, that he rejects my dance but dances with someone else during that song, i guess i won't ask her the next evening either..

luh

 

[hepcat]

Offer your hand

I assume your original post refers to some comments I made about women asking men to dance where I mentioned that in the swing scenes I've been privy to, it's considered rude to say no to the offer of a dance. Now of course there are exceptions to this and other ways around it, but personally, my policy is to never say no. The most I'll do is ask if they'll hold off 'til the next one for various reasons already mentioned.

The one reason I will not accept as a reason for saying no to a dance is if the girl says they don't know how. I assume they say this to me because they're intimidated because they're beginners and they've seen me doing flashy moves with other girls. If that's their response, I don't take no for an answer and coax them onto the floor. There's only been one girl who gave that answer who I couldn't get to dance. The majority of the time, their recalcitrance is unwarranted and their follow is novice, but completely adequate.

Now, if a girl says no and gives no good reason and doesn't say something like "how about the next one", I won't ask her to dance anymore. The way I figure it, it's her turn to ask me. If they do ask me, then I'll resume asking in the future. Besides, saying no is rude.

If the girl is in a conversation and I'm intent on dancing with her, I stand politely next to her with an obvious beat in my body, a slightly offered hand, a smile, and eyes askance. I don't verbally interrupt. In my experience, it has a 100% success rate.

If a girl is sitting by herself, I go for gusto. When a good song comes on, I slide up to her (preferably a heel slide if I have the right shoes on) with my hand out. They love that.

If it's someone I know very well, I'll sneak up and take their hand without them seeing and slide them out onto the floor. I usually do this when they're walking from the water fountain. Although, I'd strongly suggest that you only try this with someone you're very familiar with (and who never refuses a dance). Also, don't force a handhold in trying this. Be gentle. If they don't want to dance, you'll know before you get very far (although that's never happened to me). As an added bonus, work a first move into that initial slide.

Now, I have witnessed some rude behavior from some follows. Some flat out say the lead is not good enough. Some quickly turn to another lead to "cut undesired leads off at the pass" so to speak. Some, although they say yes, they act haughty during the dance and make it obvious they'd rather be dancing with someone else. Luckily, I've managed to avoid most of this. I've had some discussions with some follows who don't want to be rude, but at the same time, don't want to dance with particular leads either. This is a touchy situation and I'm afraid I don't think there's a good way to resolve it. Personally, I just try to make the best of all my dances regardless of who I'm dancing with. If a follow who I don't particularly enjoy dancing with asks excessively, I might be reluctantly swayed into saying no once in awhile. I've experienced that once. But most of the time, if I don't enjoy dancing with a particular girl, I'll sometimes ask if they'd like some pointers (as I also know how to follow). I figure, if I can help them be a better dancer, I'll enjoy dancing with them more the next time. However, that also can be a touchy issue.

If you say no to someone (for a good reason), you sure as hell better not dance to that song with someone else (unless your reason was that you promised this dance to someone else). You'll hurt the other person's feelings when they see you dancing to the song you refused them. The best thing to do is dance with that person who asked you within two songs of them asking. There have been a couple times I put someone off temporarily and then forgot. I felt very guilty every time and made sure I danced with them as soon as I remembered my faux pas.

-Hepcat

 

[luh]

no hepcat - i was not thinking to you. I also know the rules, i was just making sure that my responses are alright, and obviously, a lot of them seem to agree with the handling i do. what i'm definetly not looking for is the swing etiquette itself. I know it pretty well, just this case not. and that is only because some followers think they don't have to keep the etiquette up. I never reject dances, and i'm not to get a no as an answer. So this is just a particular situation, that's why i asked.
luh