Taking first privates ...suggestions?

[amo_dile_que_no]

Should have started this thread earlier, but here goes.

My practice partner and I are travelling to Chicago (4 hrs one way) for a couple of private lessons and a couple nights at clubs. We have reservations for 2 more next week as well. It's hard for me to categorize our level, but I would say early intermediate wouldn't be overstating it. We've both been dancing salsa for about 18 months.

What kind of an approach should we take in regard to communicating what we are looking for out of the lessons? What motivated me to arrange this was watching this particular instructor and his wife dancing in a club on a recent visit there. I just really like the type of dance moves he used and felt like they were consistent with how I see my style. We want to learn some new moves, but also want to improve our styling and general dance skills. One one hand we want to maximize the amount we learn, but recognize that trying to cram too much in might be counter-productive.

We are treating this as a mini-vacation and trying not to put too much pressure on ourselves. That being said, do you have any suggestions about how we should approach this and what we should communicate to the instructor about our goals? Greatly appreciate any input.

 

[MacMoto]

What kind of an approach should we take in regard to communicating what we are looking for out of the lessons? What motivated me to arrange this was watching this particular instructor and his wife dancing in a club on a recent visit there. I just really like the type of dance moves he used and felt like they were consistent with how I see my style. We want to learn some new moves, but also want to improve our styling and general dance skills. One one hand we want to maximize the amount we learn, but recognize that trying to cram too much in might be counter-productive.

Personally I don't see much point in taking private lessons to learn new moves -- not very cost effective. There are so many other, cheaper ways of learning moves, e.g., group classes, DVDs, congress workshops, video clips on various websites... The main advantage of private lessons, to me, is the fact that you can show the teacher how you dance and get direct feedback. That really makes a difference when it comes to learning techniques, and that would be my main focus if I were to take a private. It's great for finding out things like why certain moves you lead do not seem to work well, what you can/should do to become a better leader/follower, what subtle changes you can make to improve the look (this is not limited to styling) and feel of your dance... in order words, assessing where you are now and working out how you can get to the next level.

But since you say moves are the main reason you decided to take privates with this teacher, you can mention that as well, and rather than spending the entire lesson learning his moves, ask him to recommend good sources for his style of moves. Also, learn the philosophy behind his moves, i.e., the "why"s and "how"s rather than "what"s (perhaps with some typical examples of the sort of moves he uses -- but not too many! Long complicated turnpatterns = cramming).

 

[squirrel]

Good advice, MacMoto.

 

[saludas]

'Moves' are made using 'technique'. Without 'technique' you will simply be parroting what you think you see (dance is illusionary) or stepping to music, rather than dancing, which is using your muscles and body to create movement.

You'll never learn technique in a class devoted to 'moves'; tecnique involves a teacher working with you one to one and making sure that you (for example) don't move your hips' but create hip movement from pressing into the floor. it's a BIG difference, and willbe the basis of your dancing for years to come. Even just one lesson in technique requires you to practice and think a LOT... but the results are applied everywhere in your dancing.

I'd make sure that you take these lessons for technique. Remember, 'moves' are made up of the building blocks of dance - a 'spin', for instance, is made up of forward steps, weight changes, etc. Knowing the technique will mean that a double or triple spin becomes easy to understand and create - otherwise, you wind up with a long list of 'moves' that, without you being able to break down into their component elements, make it impossible to build on. You'll basically have some list of 'moves' that are memorized chunks, rather than having the actually ability to move to the music.

People often say that beginners (those dancing under 3-4 years) do not need technique. This is because, to the beginner, the rapid gains and advances come simply by being immersed in the dance world, and it is confused with actual progress. Hey, if you can go to a group class and then next week do a new 'move', that looks like progress to you. However, you are not pregressing or improving as a dancer, but merely getting good at memorization. It's really really hard to break out of that mindset when you're in the 'honeymoon' phase when it seems that every new group class is opening doors for you; but in reality, the real advances are much more profound, but found in a different place. Yes, after a few months you look as good as many in your 'scene', but seriously, are you dancing well? If your goal is to be a good dancer, you'll soon tire of parroting another's 'moves' and want to move freely in the movement you prefer (in this case, Salsa). It's much more enjoyable to be 'in the moment' rather than doing patterns 1,3,8 4,22 etc etc...

Beginners take a long time when they are memorizing or 'learning' moves, which is why much Salsa is taught in groups or in workshops; it gives the beginner a chance to do repetitive movement (to create 'muscle memory' which is how your practicing builds ease of operation into your body)... but as you learn technique, the time needed to make a movement 'your own' becomes shorter and shorter, until you are ultimately able to do any movement almost at once. Your top dancers all have technique - even if they 'dumb it down' for the group class and pretend it is 'from the street'. Don't believe the hype. Even if they have never taken a 'formal' lesson, the best dancers in the Salsa world understand and practice technique; they show all the results. The best 'street' dancers are indistiguishable from the best modern or ballet dancers (for instance in their application of technique to the movements they choose to make ('Salsa style' is simply choices of execution - in ballet a forward step is done one way, in Salsa it is done another way, but you still change weight, etc). A good dancer trancends...

 

[Josh]

All great posts... I agree 110%. With good technique, learning new moves is easy. Spend a few hundred dollars working on yourself, then buy a DVD and you can get 15 moves for $30.

amo, since this is your first private, it might be good to mention to be ready for an eye-opener, depending on the instructor of course. We all can get feedback from social dancing and the like, but when you're one on one (or two on one) in a private lesson environment, you may get feedback on things you never thought of... which is the point of course!

Especially for your first private, these are all good starting points: posture, frame, footwork, basic step, cross body lead, a few turns, and body movement (in fact, most privates I have taken in the last 6 months have focused almost solely on body movements--to me, body movement is what really separates a good dancer from a great dancer). That should keep you busy for as many privates as you can pay for... :-D For the first 10 or so privates I ever took, the only "steps" I ever did were the basic, CBL, and maybe 2 turn patterns, and these were only used as a "window" to examine my technique.

Also, if possible bring a camera and get the instructor to summarize what you worked on during the lesson, or just video yourself saying/doing it. This is great for remembering exercises, little nuggets of wisdom, etc., that you WILL forget if you don't record it. If you can't do this, then at least write it down. Most importantly, PRACTICE what you learn after a private. If may seem ridiculously obvious, but so many people (including myself at times) have taken private lessons, only to just keep in their normal routine. Don't forget to spend time, even if it's just 5 minutes a day, working on little things like your body movements or basic footwork.

 

[yippee1999]

thoughts

you got alot of feedback here, so I'll just add a few quick points.

as to how to communicate what you want to the teacher, just tell them exactly what you told us. YOu also said something about how you don't want to cram too much into the class, or you may end up forgetting everything. Good point, and smart to realize that. I recently took a one-time styling class (group class) where we were taught about 8 different moves. Some of the moves I "got" right away. Other moves did not feel "instinctive" to me, and I was getting frustrated trying to get them right within my body. I realized since this was a one-time class, there was no sense trying to learn all 8 moves, and then at the end of the day, I end up remembering NOTHING. So I ONLY concentrated on the moves I got, and I kept practicing them over and over in the class, and not really focusing on the other moves. I got home and practiced some more, and now have 4 new moves totally under my belt for the cost of $15.

As to getting a video, the problem with that is it's hard to know in advance if it will be right for you: are they good instructors? will the moves be too basic for you? too stylized/ballroom for your taste? And then after paying $30 or whatever, you're stuck with another DVD collecting dust in your apartment/home (and don't most of us already have too much "stuff"?)

I prefer to pay for a one-time styling/technique class.

 

[SurfSalsa]

Amo you can go as far as to take a list of objections/goals on a paper with you, BUT it depends a lot on the teacher. Some will work through the list, other will not even read it and do their own thing anyway, others will first watch you dance and then work from there.

I'm a big fan of privates, but it is because I came from a ballroom/latin background where it is the norm. But of course, the important point is to assess the teacher - and a good dancer is not necessarily a good teacher. Privates with a good teacher is ten times worth the money, but obviously with a bad teacher you're wastiung your time and money.

However, if the teacher has his own agenda, you have to give him/her a lesson or three to see if where he/she is heading is where you want to be.

Our teacher did his own thing, and has a "syllabus" of techniques and "elements" (not sequences of moves) that he works through, and it has made an amazing difference. My "toolkit" (techniques and elements) and "jewelery box" (styling) is expanding by the week, but not with fixed sequences of moves - those I get in group classes.

 

[tangotime]

training

As a teacher of fifty plus yrs in many styles ( mambo/ salsa since the fifties ) and having trained numerous prof and amateurs-- I find some of the answers quite amusing and mis informed .do any of you realise that the world champions STILL take lessons -- the most important time for private lessons-- ironically-- is when you first begin -- classes were never intended to teach people how to dance-- but to isolate dance movements and more to inform them on their responsibility in the partnership whilst executing same-- it has -- however-- taken on its own life form-- students now nearly demand a male or female counterpart in class work-- there is an old saying in teaching -- if you cant do it by yourself-- then you sure as hell cant do it with a partner -- I know-- in an ideal world- there would always be an equal number of male/ female participants . there is so much that you will never learn from a video or book and can only be imparted to suit your individual needs as a couple or single--- the majority of people are obsessed with how much material they can display during a given song-- not how to interpret what the music is saying-- called loosely by some -- style -- it goes deeper than that -- the quality of what you dance will always be more impressive to the trained eye ( and to the casual observer ) not to mention to your partner-- so-- ask your teacher to give you an understanding of what you are trying to achieve when you dance-- pay attention to detail -- ( a huge word ) and remember--Siempre- baila con alma y corazon

 

[Josh]

I find some of the answers quite amusing and mis informed

How does what you wrote differ greatly from what others here said? Didn't we say over and over that privates should be used for technique and the like, and NOT just learning more moves? Glad you're amused though.

 

[azzey]

As a teacher of fifty plus yrs in many styles ( mambo/ salsa since the fifties ) and having trained numerous prof and amateurs-- I find some of the answers quite amusing and mis informed .Siempre- baila con alma y corazon

I think there is one quality missing in what you say: Bailar siempre con alma, corazón y humildad. I think this should go for teachers and teaching as well.
Brevity is another..

 

[tangotime]

repetition

Now let me get this strait Josh -- its o/k for everyone but me to echo the sentiment ? -- maybe next time I will ask you permission before i post-- would hate to offend you

 

[tangotime]

azzi

Could not agree with you more !!! -- try to teach this to all my beginners -- y si- para- muy verboso !!

 

[MacMoto]

Now let me get this strait Josh -- its o/k for everyone but me to echo the sentiment ? -- maybe next time I will ask you permission before i post-- would hate to offend you

I think Josh was merely pointing out that you started your post in a way that sounded as if you disagreed with others:

I find some of the answers quite amusing and mis informed

...and then went on to agree with others, which was kinda confusing.