Tango and relationship

[TangoRocks]

Wow, I'm coming to this conversation a little late, so a lot of what I would say have been already said, however let me put in my 2 cents. Note to the OP, you are not going to like what I have to say.

I've been dancing ballroom/latin and swing for longer than the OP's boyfriend has, and so far have not dated anyone in my dance communities. However, it's an even bet that if my next gf is outside the dance community (most likely) she would be introduced into it, since I spend a lot of time at various dance venues and events. My nightmare is to have a jealous and possessive gf similar to the OP, insisting on exclusivity in dancing and/or for me to give up my favourite dances/dance partners because she does not want me dancing with particular ladies.

Ballroom may not be as intimate as AT, but at higher levels with full body contact, I've danced with enough ladies much closer than I have been to anyone whom I wasn't already dating. Most if not all of these ladies have boyfriends, husbands, etc, sometimes in the very room we are dancing and so far I have not broken anyone up or caused marital strife among them. To paraphrase a quote often attributed to Sigmund Freud, "Sometimes a dance is just a dance" -- in fact, I'd say almost always instead of sometimes. I and many other guys go dancing to dance--not to find a date. You might as well ask yourself why the OPs bf didn't date any of the ladies at the milonga but is going out with her. If he was so enamoured, romantically, with his AT friends, he surely could have asked one out. Sure, there are guys who go dancing just to get into someone's pants, we've all met the type, but I've seen that mostly in club dance scenes like Salsa--not much in the ballroom/swing scenes that I am familiar with.

Asking someone who's been part of a dance scene for 3 years before he started dating you to give up his dance friends would be more likely to backfire than not. If I was asked to give up dance, or given a list of ladies my new gf would "allow" me to dance with, she'd very soon become my ex-gf.

 

[Br0nze]

I think I can understand where the OP is coming from, and I think it all depends upon the perception of an individual. I can speak only for myself, and I will do so, and hope that my experiences can be of help or of reference.

It is difficult to watch someone you love be in the arms of another man or hold another woman. It is difficult to sometimes come to the conclusion that a "dance is just a dance." Dance plays with the parameters of personal and intimate space, space that is usually and typically reserved for personal and intimate people(s), ie: significant others. I think it takes a great deal of self-confidence and understanding of what dancing is and its function.

For me, dance is a connection to another. However, it is a different level of connection for every partner I dance with. My girlfriend and I are both dancers, both dance teachers, and it is difficult for us sometimes to see the other in the embrace of another. However, we know that at the end of the day I go home with her and she goes home with me; we know that we are hopelessly in love with each other and because we are secure in our relationship, we've "gotten over it."

It is in human nature to be jealous, and it is okay to be jealous. It depends entirely what one does with the jealousy that one feels. If I were a different person, I would make demands of my girlfriend to cease dancing with other men, but that would be foolish; I would lose my girlfriend as a result of being controlling. I do not want that. She does not want that. And so I must keep my jealousy in check, so to speak, just like she must keep hers in check if she sees me dancing with another girl. It's normal to feel these things... what is not normal is letting it take over your life, infiltrate your mind and dominate your thoughts.

It takes a great deal of effort to be self-confident and self-comfortable. It takes a great deal of effort to be comfortable with "sharing" your significant other, not in a sexual way, but something close to, again because dance plays with intimate space. I think the best thing to do is to talk about how you feel and grow your perspective alongside your significant other. Typically in a couple the two people either grow together or grow apart. If there is no communication, there is no relationship. It's just like dance....

It makes me happy now to see my girlfriend dance with others because she is enjoying herself as much as she does when we dance together. It is her joy that makes me happy, and vice versa. We also are aware that a job is a job, and our love life is our love life, kind of reminiscent of "a dance is just a dance." When we dance with each other, dancing is so much more than just steps and patterns. When we dance with others, dancing is just steps and patterns. It is the ability to differentiate and tap into a particular connection and turn it off when necessary.

I cannot achieve the same level of intimacy with, say, a student as I can with my girlfriend, my dance partner (which are one and the same). And it is up to me to make that distinction. It would be inappropriate of me to expect it, even, it would go against my moral and ethical codes.

That being said, there ARE men (and women) who go to Milongas and Socials purely to find a woman and engage in coitus. There ARE men (and women) who use dance as a way to enhance their sexual exploits. And there are men who do not do these things. Use your individual discretion to tell these two apart; I think it's fairly easy to do so.

As others have said, the more you dance the easier it will get. The more you talk about it, the easier it will get. The more you discover about yourself, dancing, your partner, your bf, the easier it will get. There was a topic on romanticizing dance teachers and the dancer lifestyle.... this is an example of that very thing. That is not to say that dance does not lead to intimacy or relationships or love -- it can, I am proof that it can, and am happy to proclaim it -- but one must always be careful and be very self-critical and evaluative so as not to fall into the traps that can be sprung up very easily when one travels down that path.

 

[Mosca Negra]

Some flowers were never meant to bloom.

 

[Lonnie]

Do not want to dance with any other man

My husband and I have just started learning AT. We have an extraordinarily close relationship and we love to do just about everything together. I was attracted to AT because it looked like a way to dance very intimately with my husband. I had no idea until we started that there is an expectation that you will dance with lots of partners - that brief physical intimacy with a total stranger is part of the fun.

My husband's only difficulty dancing with other women is the fact that he is so new at it, he feels he makes mistakes and is therefore either a danger or a bore to any other partner. I have absolutely no problem with his dancing with other women - I rather hope he'll learn something each time - but I am experiencing an overwhelming aversion to dancing with anyone but him.

It's a very friendly group that we've joined and I don't want to look like I'm stand-offish or not willing to play by the accepted norms. I just have less-than-zero interest in being physically close to any other man. Also, I have the great fortune ;-) of being hyper-sensitive to smell. Which means I adore the way my husband smells while the smell of any other man repulses me. And in AT, you certainly get within smelling distance! I can dance with a teacher for the same reasons I can be seen by a doctor: I'm getting benefit from a professional. But the others... no want! Any ideas how I should handle this? I can't see myself going around to every man in the group explaining all this!

 

[LoveTango]

My husband and I have just started learning AT. We have an extraordinarily close relationship and we love to do just about everything together. I was attracted to AT because it looked like a way to dance very intimately with my husband. I had no idea until we started that there is an expectation that you will dance with lots of partners - that brief physical intimacy with a total stranger is part of the fun.

My husband's only difficulty dancing with other women is the fact that he is so new at it, he feels he makes mistakes and is therefore either a danger or a bore to any other partner. I have absolutely no problem with his dancing with other women - I rather hope he'll learn something each time - but I am experiencing an overwhelming aversion to dancing with anyone but him.

It's a very friendly group that we've joined and I don't want to look like I'm stand-offish or not willing to play by the accepted norms. I just have less-than-zero interest in being physically close to any other man. Also, I have the great fortune ;-) of being hyper-sensitive to smell. Which means I adore the way my husband smells while the smell of any other man repulses me. And in AT, you certainly get within smelling distance! I can dance with a teacher for the same reasons I can be seen by a doctor: I'm getting benefit from a professional. But the others... no want! Any ideas how I should handle this? I can't see myself going around to every man in the group explaining all this!

Welcome, Lonnie.
I don't know about your community but it is not a problem at all that you only dance with your husband.
You mentioned that "brief physical intimacy with a total stranger is part of the fun". I don't see it this way. At the beginning, I don't feel comfortable at all being with another man at such close contact. I love tango for other reasons, so I consider it (close contact) an obstacle to overcome. After a while, we desensitize, so the closeness has no intimacy implication at all.
I think although you prefer to dance only with your husband and it should be fine to others in the group, it is to your own benefit to dance with other people. To me, one of the most addictive factor of tango is that we create an artistic experience through every single dance. I imagine, if you dance with one person over and over, the creativity might get dull? Could this be the reason that I often see wife or husband encourage their spouse to dance with another partner?
Being dancing tango for less than two years, I am still a "beginner". You shall hear many different opinions on your issue.
Happy dancing!

 

[Lonnie]

Welcome, Lonnie.
I don't know about your community but it is not a problem at all that you only dance with your husband.
You mentioned that "brief physical intimacy with a total stranger is part of the fun". I don't see it this way. At the beginning, I don't feel comfortable at all being with another man at such close contact. I love tango for other reasons, so I consider it (close contact) an obstacle to overcome. After a while, we desensitize, so the closeness has no intimacy implication at all.
I think although you prefer to dance only with your husband and it should be fine to others in the group, it is to your own benefit to dance with other people. To me, one of the most addictive factor of tango is that we create an artistic experience through every single dance. I imagine, if you dance with one person over and over, the creativity might get dull? Could this be the reason that I often see wife or husband encourage their spouse to dance with another partner?
Being dancing tango for less than two years, I am still a "beginner". You shall hear many different opinions on your issue.
Happy dancing!

Thank you so much for your thought-provoking response. Perhaps after awhile I would desensitize, but I still have the issue of extreme sensitivity to smell. It's hard to describe this to people (which is most people) who don't suffer from it (sometimes it's great, like when the smells are wonderful. The smell and taste of a superb dish can literally bring me to tears of happy emotional overwhelm). If I can try to describe the level of revulsion... Most of us didn't grow up on a farm, and there are farms that, face it, smell bad. Very bad. But to the person who works on the farm, has lived there and knows all the benefits of the animals, the manure, the great food that is produced etc... that person probably either doesn't smell it any more - is desensitized - or likes it because of positive associations with it. But for many of us, hanging around particular parts of a farm is so revolting, we run from it. I know the perfectly fine men in the tango group don't smell like that! But my whole system reacts as if they did.

 

[newbie]

he feels he makes mistakes and is therefore either a danger or a bore to any other partner.

He is right. But it's ok, followers know that from a beginning leader they can expect nothing but bruises and boredom. It won't prevent him from feeling comfortable after a while in a usual dance-studio, group-classes environment. For you, on the other sides, all men but your husbands are pigs. And your problem becomes your husband's problem as well, as you have to do everything together.
How about you both go take private classes with a female teacher then?

 

[bordertangoman]

The longer you dance I believe it will matter less to you.
You didn't write how long you have been dancing AT.

My teachers at the beginning talked about tango and personal space.
And they said it could be a problem when we start close embrace.

Sometimes I get better energy response with some dancers in open embrace that close.
Closeness and intimacy are not defined by the distance of dancers.

i agree with all the above.

 

[dchester]

The longer you dance I believe it will matter less to you.
You didn't write how long you have been dancing AT.

My teachers at the beginning talked about tango and personal space.
And they said it could be a problem when we start close embrace.

Sometimes I get better energy response with some dancers in open embrace that close.
Closeness and intimacy are not defined by the distance of dancers.

Hugging is defined by the distance, IMO. It requires body contact. You can't hug if only your arms are touching each other.

Now certainly, there are those who don't aspire to hug when dancing, and there's nothing wrong with that. There are also others (like me), that will want a close embrace for some songs, while being fine with opening things up (a bit) for other songs. But the amount of "intimacy" is not the same, as the emotions are not quite the same ("connection" vs fun/exhilaration).

At least for me, anyways.

 

[Nathan]

Thank you so much for your thought-provoking response. Perhaps after awhile I would desensitize, but I still have the issue of extreme sensitivity to smell. It's hard to describe this to people (which is most people) who don't suffer from it (sometimes it's great, like when the smells are wonderful. The smell and taste of a superb dish can literally bring me to tears of happy emotional overwhelm). If I can try to describe the level of revulsion... Most of us didn't grow up on a farm, and there are farms that, face it, smell bad. Very bad. But to the person who works on the farm, has lived there and knows all the benefits of the animals, the manure, the great food that is produced etc... that person probably either doesn't smell it any more - is desensitized - or likes it because of positive associations with it. But for many of us, hanging around particular parts of a farm is so revolting, we run from it. I know the perfectly fine men in the tango group don't smell like that! But my whole system reacts as if they did.

That's a tough one. As far as I can tell, you've got two options:

(1) Try to dance with almost everybody and hope you become desensitized with time.
(2) Don't dance with anyone whose smell isn't in the range of neutral or good.

Ideally, the best option is to try to become like the person who works on the farm (desensitized) so that your choice of partner's isn't so limited. It's hard enough finding partners with whom you can have a real connection under ordinary circumstances... if you're limited by their smell, it's going to be that much harder to have a good time at milongas!

However, tango requires focus, and if you truly can't focus (let alone enjoy yourself) because of a person's odor, it won't be a good dance for either of you, so you might as well not dance with them. You may find that a compromise between the two options works best for you, and if so, try not to feel bad about not dancing with certain people. It's your prerogative to dance with whomever you choose, and to refuse invitations for any reason, big or small.

Hope that helps.

 

[opendoor]

I have absolutely no problem with his dancing with other women.... I am experiencing an overwhelming aversion to dancing with anyone but him.

Congrats Lonnie, that´s so fine what you are describing that actually a lot of guys surely will envy your husband, I for one, do so! But one the other hand it really may be a hindering fact.

I dont know where you are living. But in Hamburg, where I come from, which is a town with 11 milongas a week, leading women are really common. So have you ever tried one? And take into account, leading women not necessarily belong to the other side! There are so much reasons and biographies that you also should be open tho this opportunity.

 

[sixela]

leading women not necessarily belong to the other side!

[Tongue fimrly planted in cheek] Leading women have fallen to the Dark Side (especially if they're good).

Usually two less good followers to cabeceo at a milonga. That's a pretty grim prospect in my book. Yes, I'm being selfish (and jealous, because I'm a really lousy follower).