Tango late in life?

[itwillhappen]

As you say tango is not only about dancing.

Why would you say goodbye.

I'm not aware of any milonga where people with disabilities are a significant target group and necessary measures get taken.

They can be present—often only theoretically—but they shouldn't be disruptive. And the one time three people carried a wheelchair dancer up the stairs, she definitely disrupted the ronda.

 

[itwillhappen]

Only two of the women are not single and their husbands don’t dance at all. Besides, I don’t see anything unusual in socializing without one’s partner in tow.

Women can't be blamed for being better socially networked than men. But that doesn't change the fact that in the scenario you described, men didn't play any role.

If men have here, on average, a life expectancy that is about four years shorter and are in relationships with women who are about four years younger; so it's not really reasonable to expect them to still be able to dance in the long run. My girlfriend also pointed out some such imbalances at milongas.

I also suspect that couples who happily dance tango together for a long time are more the exception than the rule. There's a "survivor bias" at play; the other cases aren't seen because they simply vanish. Something is likely to happen over the decades, or this aspect might be completely neglected already when the relationship was first established. Not to mention the couples where dancing itself or partner swapping exposes problems in the partnership.

 

[brujo]

If men have here, on average, a life expectancy that is about four years shorter and are in relationships with women who are about four years younger; so it's not really reasonable to expect them to still be able to dance in the long run. My girlfriend also pointed out some such imbalances at milongas.

Not to mention just the barriers that men face when learning to dance. Of about ten men that started with my beginner’s class I only see about three left after nine months. And only two of us are brave enough to go to milongas. Oddly enough, a few couples that won’t dance with anyone else, won’t rotate partners in class and only dance with each other are also the ones that go to milongas enthusiastically.

There is hope though, there is one guy in my class whose wife has tried to get him to dance for 15 years and he finally started taking classes and is actually enjoying it. So as long as the tangueras get married early and start influencing their spouses to dance once in while, it can take less than 20 years for it to be part of the relationship.

 

[TangoYfutbol]

A few days ago I was at a dinner party with 6 mature tangeras. I was the youngest (still in my 50s) and the healthiest and the most active dancer. It was on one hand rather depressing to see how fast downhill it can go in the age group of my own age plus 15 or so years. On the other hand, the determination of some of these dancers to keep going or get back to it or find something periferal to dancing to stay in tango was inspiring. Here are some of their stories:

One has given up dancing completely - our hostess. She was never that great a dancer and found it harder to get dances with age, plus with a former lung tumor and being immunocompromised, covid gave her dance life the coup de grâce. But she misses the social aspect, so she makes the effort to invite her dance friends to dinner parties (22 per year! But with different invitees) and loves to hear our passionate stories and let the feelings rub off for secondhand enjoyment. Meanwhile, she is gradually gifting her favorite tango apparel so her dresses can travel and keep dancing. It makes her happy when I tell her which events I wore which outfits of hers in different marathons etc around and about in Europe.

The saddest case was a lady who was in denial that her metastasized breast cancer had spread to lungs and brain. She was slow but aware, and with a never ending smile. She expressed gratitude for all the beautiful tango experiences she has been able to have in her lifetime and didn’t feel sorry for herself. Tango has given her so much pleasure.

Then there were two ladies with broken feet that have been slow at healing (over a year for both), making it hard to get back on the dance floor for more than a tanda at a time. One had a sense of urgency in rehabilitating. If she doesn’t get back now soon, it will be too hard once she’s in her 70s. Her determination about doing her exercises religiously was impressive so as not to loose more time. She was the most frustrated one, though.

The other lady with a broken foot was also a cancer surviver from 3 different severe cancers. Such a positive spirit and beautiful soul, not to speak of actual stunning beauty. In typical dim lighting of a milonga, she looks like she’s in her 30s although she is close to 70 (not sure which side of 70 she is). She is working very determinedly on building up stamina to dance more. She’s an amazing dancer. But realistic about that it won’t last forever, so now she is trying to let DJing allow her to stay in the environment.

One more of the ladies is rather healthy (with only temporary health stuff going on) and active dancer and very very good, but she is fed up with how the scene has collapsed. She has so few opportunities to dance with partners her level. Her work didn’t allow for neither the financial situation or time to do much significant tango travel. She just announced her solution: she is retiring very soon, selling a house in a rather sought after location, and moving to a different country where her mother lives and cost of living is very low. This will allow her both time and money to do the nomadic tangera life for longer stretches and satisfy her need to dance, although the place she is moving to doesn’t have a tango scene. But she can teach and dj and organize events.

My own frustrations are nothing in comparison. That 6 months a year for the next 3 winters I can’t get to dance much, is not the end of the world. And it reminds me how much I need to make the most out of each tanda when I can. And especially enjoy that I’m in the peak of my dance journey before something physical might potentially slow me down. A knee injury from a bike fall over a year ago is still bothering me for other activities but doesn’t bother me the slightest bit while dancing.

Nothing is to be taken for granted.

Anyone want to share other stories about how people you observe/know deal with their limitations?

Thank you so much for sharing this. Your words carry a quiet, profound truth—the kind that only comes from someone who has danced long enough, lived long enough, and loved tango deeply enough to see its seasons change.


What you wrote resonates with me in a very personal way. I also used to dance every day—ten, sometimes fifteen years ago—milongas from beginning to end, losing myself in tandas like they were chapters of a story I never wanted to end. Now, with heart issues, I hardly dance once a week. Sometimes the sadness comes in waves, especially when I feel the body say “not today” even though the soul is begging for music. But I’ve come to accept it. Not in resignation, but in a way that feels like gratitude. Looking back, I carry no regret. This—these few steps, these walks forward and back, these ochos, these cortados—this is what remains, and I love it immensely. Basics, yes, but full of meaning.


Your dinner gathering with those six tangueras touched me. It felt like a small window into the future—what aging in tango might look like—its losses, yes, but its fierce, stubborn beauty too.


Your stories about them were a mirror to something I’ve quietly observed:


Tango doesn’t leave people. People find new ways to remain inside it or connected to it.
Thank you for sharing.

 

[Bailango]

I'm not aware of any milonga where people with disabilities are a significant target group and necessary measures get taken.

They can be present—often only theoretically—but they shouldn't be disruptive. And the one time three people carried a wheelchair dancer up the stairs, she definitely disrupted the ronda.

That can apply to any dancing social. It isn’t tango specific.

 

[Miradamiranda]

f men have here, on average, a life expectancy that is about four years shorter and are in relationships with women who are about four years younger; so it's not really reasonable to expect them to still be able to dance in the long run

Interesting point, because I’m used to seeing it the other way around. The old guys can easily dance with women 30 years younger so they have plenty of potential partners. If they take a break it’s because they want to. Whereas old women often become invisible after a certain age and there are less available men their age and up, because those guys are busy dancing with the younger ones. I definitely dance a lot with guys 10-30 years older than myself, while their wives sit around.

There are a lot of unattached or at least solo mature women on the scene also. Women who decide they are going to do what they want to do without needing to convince a man to go along. There is also a segment of more insecure women on the scene who couldn’t dream of going out dancing without their men.
I met a woman last year who was new to the scene, I thought. But she had only taken a break for some years since her husband died. He had been a good dancer and she was leaning heavily on him to get dances. She was amazed to hear that I go alone to all these places and events and get to dance a lot.

 

[Bailango]

Not to mention just the barriers that men face when learning to dance. Of about ten men that started with my beginner’s class I only see about three left after nine months. And only two of us are brave enough to go to milongas. Oddly enough, a few couples that won’t dance with anyone else, won’t rotate partners in class and only dance with each other are also the ones that go to milongas enthusiastically.

There is hope though, there is one guy in my class whose wife has tried to get him to dance for 15 years and he finally started taking classes and is actually enjoying it. So as long as the tangueras get married early and start influencing their spouses to dance once in while, it can take less than 20 years for it to be part of the relationship.

I can only speak from the local scene having witnessed it for a long time.

There two kinds of couples. Together they are a very small minority. One type of couple is where they are in a steady relationship - either married or long time dating. The other couple is strictly dance partnerships.

At a typical local milonga of 60 to 100 people, only 5 or 6 may be couples. They may change but that’s steady number. Within a few couple one partner will likely not dance with others. That partner is almost always a woman. 95% of the couples dance with other people too.

Which means the non couple or those coming as singles make up over 80% of the milonga attendees. Many have partners that don’t dance. I haven’t been able to figure if there are more men or women without their SO dancing. The imbalance isn’t significant enough to be noticeable.

Almost half of the women I dance with have kids in high school or going to college. Many are single parents. With that kind of family responsibility they can’t come out dancing regularly.

There are also empty nesters. Tango is a good outlet for them. It is hard to tell how many are empty nesters. It is also hard to tell what percentage are single and not in any relationship. It is a significant number. Like in any society, the milonga crowd reflects the general demographic of the area. From an eye-test point of view.

 

[Miradamiranda]

What about the issue of what aspects of dancing the leading or following roles are more likely to be hampered by aging? A follower who can no longer dissociate well due to spinal stiffness, or she starts getting equilibrium issues.. A leader can also choose not to do certain moves if his body doesn’t cooperate, whereas a follower doesn’t know what’s been thrown at her. We definitely get pushed and shoved around.
For a leader, I’m aware of followers hanging in them causing back and wrist pain. But since I hold my own axis when I dance with frail old men, I know not to put much pressure on their hands, I am tall and strong enough to catch them when they become wobbly (happens more than you’d think). But what other limitations? Foot and knee problems. I gather would be the same for leaders and followers, except women sometimes feel the pressure of dancing in high heels, and compression socks don’t go that well with feminine outfits.

 

[Miradamiranda]

I can only speak from the local scene having witnessed it for a long time.

There two kinds of couples. Together they are a very small minority. One type of couple is where they are in a steady relationship - either married or long time dating. The other couple is strictly dance partnerships.

At a typical local milonga of 60 to 100 people, only 5 or 6 may be couples. They may change but that’s steady number. Within a few couple one partner will likely not dance with others. That partner is almost always a woman. 95% of the couples dance with other people too.

Which means the non couple or those coming as singles make up over 80% of the milonga attendees. Many have partners that don’t dance. I haven’t been able to figure if there are more men or women without their SO dancing. The imbalance isn’t significant enough to be noticeable.

Almost half of the women I dance with have kids in high school or going to college. Many are single parents. With that kind of family responsibility they can’t come out dancing regularly.

There are also empty nesters. Tango is a good outlet for them. It is hard to tell how many are empty nesters. It is also hard to tell what percentage are single and not in any relationship. It is a significant number. Like in any society, the milonga crowd reflects the general demographic of the area. From an eye-test point of view.

Interesting you have the time to work out these statistics while dancing …
In my scene I see a lot of couples who dance with everyone, and I see a lot of solos who’s relationship status I only know of if it has come up in conversation. The only woman I know who doesn’t or rarely dances with others than her husband happens to be the wife of one of my top 3 partners. She says she comes along for his sake only.

 

[Bailango]

Interesting you have the time to work out these statistics while dancing …

I am perhaps a natural observer. People are surprised I can observe these kind of things. I am surprised people can’t, even when it is staring in their face

 

[brujo]

Interesting point, because I’m used to seeing it the other way around. The old guys can easily dance with women 30 years younger so they have plenty of potential partners. If they take a break it’s because they want to. Whereas old women often become invisible after a certain age and there are less available men their age and up, because those guys are busy dancing with the younger ones.

Not sure how it is like in your scene but there are definitively a lot more women who learn to lead as well vs. men who actively follow in mine. Specially now where there tends to be too many follows at milongas and such, so it's not rare to see a lot of women leading other women and once in a while men. To the point where there is often a leader imbalance because there are no follows in the classes. I think that's a good thing if there are going to be fewer and fewer men over time.

I met an older lady who does ballroom and she learned just the leading role in tango and is having a blast.

 

[brujo]

That can apply to any dancing social. It isn’t tango specific.

There are aspects of tango that make it more difficult. The whole floor navigation means that someone in a wheelchair would either have to be in the middle of the floor or dance on one side. Whereas in other dances like swing or blues or salsa it's much easier to make room to accommodate someone in a wheelchair. The nature of the turns in the other dances and the further apart connection also make it easier to adapt to someone who is seated. I'm not saying it's not possible and you can find great videos of people in wheelchairs dancing tango in shows and whatnot. But I definitively see more people in wheelchairs in blues and ecstatic dance and never seen one in tango locally.

 

[Miradamiranda]

there are definitively a lot more women who learn to lead as well vs. men who actively follow

For sure! And a lot of the women I see learning to lead do it because they are getting older and feel the competition from the (relatively) PYTs. I let my post above only address the traditional gender roles because of the topic of life spans for men vs women compounded with the typical age differences in couples, which @itwillhappen brought up.

Of course there are other valid reasons to learn to lead. I’m learning it for the challenge. To pay it forward to other women, so they don’t have to iron seats - since other women have done that to me when I visited cities where I knew nobody. It hopefully also contributes to my following skills.
It will be a bonus to me when my market value on the floor declines, that I won’t have to iron seats.

Will being a much younger wife in an aging dance couple mean that she is stuck at home being caretaker for an old man instead of getting out to dance and take care of her own needs, social interaction and exercise?

 

[opendoor]

..It will be a bonus to me when my market value on the floor declines..

I don't like that wording at all, Miradamiranda. Or rather, I'm trying not to let it intimidate me. My own market value has gone to zero. Nobody dances with me anymore because it feels good, because my social standing is advantageous, because I'm considered attractive, or because they can draw attention to themselves through technique or charisma on the floor.
Those who want to dance with me now are the people I'm friends with. They're people I'm also in contact with outside of tango and whom I value. It's no longer the obvious advantages, anything visible that determines one's market value. The network I once funded is what's supporting me now. Perhaps your situation is more difficult because you haven't lived in your current location for very long. But I think that investments will pay off for you too.

 

[Bailango]

There are aspects of tango that make it more difficult. The whole floor navigation means that someone in a wheelchair would either have to be in the middle of the floor or dance on one side. Whereas in other dances like swing or blues or salsa it's much easier to make room to accommodate someone in a wheelchair. The nature of the turns in the other dances and the further apart connection also make it easier to adapt to someone who is seated. I'm not saying it's not possible and you can find great videos of people in wheelchairs dancing tango in shows and whatnot. But I definitively see more people in wheelchairs in blues and ecstatic dance and never seen one in tango locally.

I have only ever seen a wheel chair at salsa. Not at tango. Assuming there is someone, the others can pass (overtake) the wheel chair in the ronda.

To me it is easier to dance tango when your physical movements are restricted. In comparison salsa, swing, etc put higher demand on your body. Unless you stand and hug. But then that is what tango allows you to do. Stand and hug while moving at your own pace.

Tango is also one social dance where you can skip dancing and instead socialize. You can do so in other dances too but it is not expected. The floor is not arrange for dancers to sit and talk. In tango you can bring your own drinks and food, have a little party at your table, etc.