Tango obsession/addiction

[opendoor]

..Again, though, it isn't a complaint.

And I also believe that cliquiness is basically born out of a feeling of inferiority. Everyone just covers up their wounds, their sore spots and deficits. And the fact that I had the youngest and slimmest women is also just an expression of trauma (which doesn't excuse my behavior).

 

[pianistamediano]

I used to bother with them because I hoped to be accepted. I worked very hard, and spent a lot of money and time, to move from "beginner" to "intermediate, with dreams of advanced." I never gave up and it was my genuine desire to one day dance with and among the people I saw as the queens and kings of our local milongas. In my heart I probably knew that was wishful thinking, but it was a goal, and goals are important when one hits plateaus or even tumbles off them in one's quest to improve.

These days, I no longer bother with them because I've clued in that their world isn't about dance skills – it's about popularity, the socioeconomic means to hire visiting maestros and jet off to exotic locales for festivals, and no small degree of looks and fashion sense. I dance with my preferred partners, who aren't what I called "queens and kings of the milonga" but rather people who keep their heads down and do the hard work of improving technique, musicality, floorcraft, etc. I enjoy this immensely and have decided that this is my "lane."

Is this the same group as the one that consists of resident/visiting teachers/performers/professionals, a small number of 'advanced' local dancers that they've accepted, and their hanger-ons/a few desperate followers hoping to get lucky?

Those are a prominent sight here in London, since we have visiting professionals almost every week. At least over here, I will acknowledge that they are skilled, but I have no desire to take a class with any of the resident professionals, and the vast majority of visiting professionals bore me. I like the way Adrian Costa walks, but his dancing is a bit too clean for me. I'm just waiting for Carlitos. Unfortunately, I can't wait for Tete or Vidort or Osvaldo Cartery. A friend has told me that Coca is still alive and dancing at Porteno y Bailarin, so fingers crossed I get to dance with her before the inevitable sadly happens!

I am friends with a few, acquaintances with more, but I refuse to sit with them, and I just don't even bother cabeceo-ing any of the followers, because it is futile. Do I want to dance with them? Many, no, because they tend towards the acrobatic side of things and open the embrace too much for my liking. There's a few that I am curious about, but I just ignore them anyway.

 

[Rabbit]

At least over here, I will acknowledge that they are skilled,

I disagree. Their knowledge, nor that of their teachers, does not extend anywhere beyond how to do steps.

 

[Bailango]

It's worse in salsa, I presume?

All it would take to solve this is male leaders dancing with followers at or around their own ages. Unfortunately, this does not happen enough.

The salsa crowd is younger. The inflow into salsa has reduced as most youngsters now days get siphoned off by bachata which is an easier dance. Salsa dancers don’t like bachata both from the music perspective and dancing. Almost all salsa dancers can dance bachata.

The salsa was at its peak in the oughts. It is still by far biggest social dancing community by numbers. But it is aging as less new blood is taking it up. People who joined at its peak are now 20 to 25 years older.

Salsa music is fast and requires more athleticism to dance. Most ladies quit salsa when they start families. Very few ever return to social dancing as other priorities in life take over. It is same for the men but there are far more men in 40s and 50s who are still dancing salsa.

There are only a very few 45+ women who actively dance salsa socially. There is a huge population of Latinos of older age that dances salsa but their dancing is considered too limited to one or two simple basic moves.

If you are known to be good dancer, you will get asked. Good female dancers in salsa tend to be younger (20s to 30s) and dress in a certain way. That means older women will get asked but not as a first choice. Unless she is known for being good dancer. You also have to be in a fairly good shape physically to keep up with speed, balance, and timing in salsa to the faster music. A leader moves far less in salsa and therefore can get away by being less athletic. For follower dancing a song can be like mid-intensity or high-intensity workout. For leader it can be no or low intensity to mid-intensity workout if he chooses to. All these factors collectively means the age works against the followers in salsa as they get older. Those older who are able to maintain the level of endurance and athleticism to dance salsa for at least 1-3 hours non-stop will get dances.

 

[ArbeeNYC]

Sounds very much in the Buenos Aires spirit tbh, I visited some of these types of milonga when I was there. great experience.

Was very small though. You know, three couples on the dance floor and it started to feel crowded.

 

[Rabbit]

I'm entirely happy that I've found my niche among the nerdy dancers who literally talk about the "natural resonant frequency" of a couple's ochos, count sacadas, and make corrections in single-digit degrees and centimetres. It doesn't bug me.

I just feel how fast my partner is doing her ochos and match, do sacadas and all other leg interactions opportunistically, and abuse leader crosses to adjust position

I consider to be essential all the other aspects of the dance than the "technique is everything" crowd neglect

 

[Bailango]

I consider to be essential all the other aspects of the dance than the "technique is everything" crowd neglect

I haven’t seen this crowd anywhere. The “technique is everything” usually is mindset of early intermediates when they start discovering importance of technique. I don’t know how long it lasts. Most good and advance dancers employ technique as a tool in their dancing. If someone is only dancing technically I consider those dancers to be work in progress.

 

[Bailango]

I know many people for whom that was true! It didn't work out that way for me . . . I was already laboring at the disadvantage of being an anglophone among francophones, not a native of the city or even the region, and having most of my tango journey (2013–present) overlap the hardest string of bad-luck experiences in my life (2016–present). So, I imagine I was too much the "other," and too melancholy and serious, to play that role. That's on top of being a dorky-looking ex-scientist, almost certainly somewhere on the autism spectrum, with a below-national-average income.

If we are talking about tango dancing I have not witnessed any of above make any difference in my home scene. The dorkiest, the most uncoordinated, the entitled, slightly sleazy, etc all get their share of dances and some can be part of cliques. In addition I see bad behavior or manners get rewarded. This is not the case in other dances. Tango pretends to be meritocracy. In real world behavior it indulges in more cronyism than any other dance community. Skill based meritocracy is higher in other dances and yet those communities are more friendly and welcoming. Tango justifies being unfriendly making all the noise about compatibility, skill, etc. In practice it is patently false. The reason tango is unfriendly and snobby is because it glorifies cronyism

 

[pianistamediano]

I disagree. Their knowledge, nor that of their teachers, does not extend anywhere beyond how to do steps.

Never said they were skilled in everything, at least not what I consider the most important.

I literally have more musicality in my two pinkies than most of them.

 

[pianistamediano]

I haven’t seen this crowd anywhere. The “technique is everything” usually is mindset of early intermediates when they start discovering importance of technique. I don’t know how long it lasts. Most good and advance dancers employ technique as a tool in their dancing. If someone is only dancing technically I consider those dancers to be work in progress.

You'd hate London then. Technique and breadth of vocabulary is king (and queen) here.

 

[Rabbit]

Tango pretends to be meritocracy. In real world behavior it indulges in more cronyism than any other dance community.

The old fable about the emperor having no clothes is tango in a nutshell.

 

[itwillhappen]

And I also believe that cliquiness is basically born out of a feeling of inferiority. Everyone just covers up their wounds, their sore spots and deficits. And the fact that I had the youngest and slimmest women is also just an expression of trauma (which doesn't excuse my behavior).

Well, in terms of mental abilities, such an "inner circle" is quite normal equipped, if only because they were not selected for it. And of course belonging to a group creates a feeling of security, and of course most people need that, even if it is deceptive.
If you suspect that there is a dedicated compensation for feelings of inferiority, it is more likely that it is your projection, saying something (but what?) about you.

I was recently at a flagship milonga in Cologne, and I was warned beforehand. Of course there was a group of "1st-tier dancers" who probably danced really well and probably had their seats with shoe bags on them somewhere. But to be honest, I didn't really had time to deal with them, because directly "behind" them there were "2nd-tier dancers" standing accessible and staggered.

 

[itwillhappen]

I have to apologize for my precocious years today. But there were simply dynamics that took hold of me and others.

Why exactly, and with whom? You certainly fed many teachers and organizers. And hopefully also gave many dancers beautiful tandas. Did you actively prevent someone from developing, foul them, bully them?

 

[itwillhappen]

The dorkiest, the most uncoordinated, the entitled, slightly sleazy, etc all get their share of dances and some can be part of cliques. In addition I see bad behavior or manners get rewarded. This is not the case in other dances. Tango pretends to be meritocracy. In real world behavior it indulges in more cronyism than any other dance community. Skill based meritocracy is higher in other dances and yet those communities are more friendly and welcoming. Tango justifies being unfriendly making all the noise about compatibility, skill, etc. In practice it is patently false. The reason tango is unfriendly and snobby is because it glorifies cronyism

Okay. And why hasn't tango died out yet?
Is tango perhaps closer to everyday life? Can tango satisfy needs that perhaps not everyone can satisfy sufficiently in everyday life?

 

[TTanguero]

You'd hate London then. Technique and breadth of vocabulary is king (and queen) here.

I'd argue that technique doesn't get much focus – there's a lot of open-embrace, arm-led nonsense going on.