Tango Orchestra Preferences

[UKDancer]

There are a few that do play regularly at milongas(Fernandez Fierro, Sexteto Milonguero, Sexteto Canyengue), but Argentina is not as rich as it was in the 1930-40s.

True, but tango is important to the BsAs economy, and the dance exports successfully all over the world. It just puzzles me that there are virtually no traditional tango orchestras who record anywhere? We have Tango Siempre in UK, but their recorded output is barely danceable (it wasn't meant to be, I think), but they play for dancing regularly.

Is there a danger that we are creating shrines to a past age, in not keeping the music alive (and live). The dance has moved on, but the music is frozen in time, unless electotango is to your taste (and it isn't to mine, except in very small doses).

 

[dchester]

True, but tango is important to the BsAs economy, and the dance exports successfully all over the world. It just puzzles me that there are virtually no traditional tango orchestras who record anywhere? We have Tango Siempre in UK, but their recorded output is barely danceable (it wasn't meant to be, I think), but they play for dancing regularly.

Is there a danger that we are creating shrines to a past age, in not keeping the music alive (and live). The dance has moved on, but the music is frozen in time, unless electotango is to your taste (and it isn't to mine, except in very small doses).

My opinion is that a lot of the bands that get into tango theses days, don't do as well as they could (even though the average musician today is much better, IMO, than the musicians of the past) because:

• The Musicians are often playing more for themselves than for dancers.
• They play a lot more Pugliese (and Piazzolla) than what is typically found at milongas.
• Some of the arrangements of very popular songs have more of a jazz feel to them.

I will say that when you get a good band that sticks (mostly) to songs from the golden era, and doesn't do too many tempos changes and stuff when playing, the crowd just goes crazy with excitement. People get out there to dance, and don't want to sit until the set is over.

 

[Subliminal]

Is there a danger that we are creating shrines to a past age, in not keeping the music alive (and live). The dance has moved on, but the music is frozen in time, unless electotango is to your taste (and it isn't to mine, except in very small doses).

I've made this point before in other tango threads. Modern tango musicians just don't get enough respect. And heaven forbid anyone tries to compose a new tango. heh.

I like electrotango. Well, not all of it. Some of the Gotan stuff can get a little repetitive. I think we need to explore more modern music, or do away with the stigma of dancing tango to non-tango music. Golden Age music will always be great, but for the dance to grow and reach new audiences it has to be danced to music that the people can connect to.

 

[Andreas Wichter]

Hi everyone,
I posted something earlier, but i got held up in moderation, just got through and ended up on page 2 of this thread. So if you're interested go look. I was planning to post 3 more, but now I'm not sure I want to bother. It's a bit tedious with that kind of lag...
Andreas

 

[Gssh]

My opinion is that a lot of the bands that get into tango theses days, don't do as well as they could (even though the average musician today is much better, IMO, than the musicians of the past) because:

• The Musicians are often playing more for themselves than for dancers.
• They play a lot more Pugliese (and Piazzolla) than what is typically found at milongas.
• Some of the arrangements of very popular songs have more of a jazz feel to them.

My impression is that they often simply don't like dancers very much. My yardstick are always good rave dj's - they are basically able to shape the dancefloor into whatever they want. And that particular skillset seems to be completely missing with most modern orchestras. I experienced a few exceptions, and those were glorious evenings.

I really think it is Piazzolla's fault - everytime i dance to him - even to his more danceable pieces - i feel like he is sneering at the dancefloor and doing his best to make people uncomfortable. I know some people cherish the challenge, but i am not dancing to get in a game of one-upmanship with the orchestra (especially if it is a recording - i actually could imagine this to be fun in a kinda flamenco way with a live band if it was done consensual). It is the leaders equivalent to followers who like being thrown and pretzeled through over-ambituous moves.

Other people are mischievieous - like the way tanturi likes to throw out red herrings about what is going to happen in the song, but it doesn't feel malicious - he is lauging with the dancers, not at them, and in the end he (at least to me) feels like he is supportive of the dancers.

Gssh

 

[dchester]

Hi everyone,
I posted something earlier, but i got held up in moderation, just got through and ended up on page 2 of this thread. So if you're interested go look. I was planning to post 3 more, but now I'm not sure I want to bother. It's a bit tedious with that kind of lag...
Andreas

If you put in links to web pages, they get flagged for moderation (I think for the first few hundred posts, or something).

 

[Andreas Wichter]

No links. I PMd Steve and he had no idea why it got into moderation. Go figure.
Anyway, the discussion has moved on, so I'm not sure whether to continue - I talked about Di Sarli in that post.

 

[dchester]

I'll give it a try, gearing up for a DJing gig in Italy I have to deal with these issues anyway.
So this doesn't get too unwieldy, I'll do single posts for each of the 4 orhcestras mentioned.
Some people seem to regard Di Sarli as simple and straightforward. I can't quite agree on that view, as his music has great depth and complexity. However, it is quite danceable for beginners, too, as evidenced by its frequent use in beginner classes. Di Sarli's strength lies in the fact that the same tracks that are quite easy for beginners to dance to (due to the relatively clear beat) are at the same time challenging and rewarding for seasoned dancers who can squeeze much more out of it. Add to that the fact that Di Sarli has recorded from 1928 until 1959, and you have a wealth of markedly varied music that can fuel a wide range of moods. Rhythmic, lyrical or dramatic - Di Sarli delivers.
Furthermore, I regard Di Sarli as the greatest of the Golden Age orchestras. If I were to pick one orchestra to demonstrate what tango is, and can be, Di Sarli would be my pick. It's iconic.
From a DJ's perspective then: I always find it hardest about the job to pick what *not* to play, something especially bad with short milongas (less than 6 hours or so). Only one tanda of Di Sarli during the evening? Impossible. Two? The bare minimum that still leaves me with tough choices. My first pick is usually Rufino, as I can't really not play him. But then you still have Podesta, Duran, early instrumentals (Sexteto) and at least the classic 40s instrumentals clamouring to be played. And let us not disregard the 50s stuff - at the right moment in the milonga those can be exceptionally good.
So with a 5-6 hour milonga I usually end up playing at leat 3 or 4 tandas of Di Sarli, not counting valses (sometimes Di Sarli makes the cut there) and milongas (rarely makes the cut).
Shall I go on or are you guys bored already?

I'm not bored yet, so I guess you can continue.

 

[AndaBien]

...Some people seem to regard Di Sarli as simple and straightforward. I can't quite agree on that view, as his music has great depth and complexity. However, it is quite danceable for beginners, too, as evidenced by its frequent use in beginner classes. Di Sarli's strength lies in the fact that the same tracks that are quite easy for beginners to dance to (due to the relatively clear beat) are at the same time challenging and rewarding for seasoned dancers who can squeeze much more out of it...

I quite agree!

Yes, please keep posting.

 

[Andreas Wichter]

Alright then, D'Arienzo:
I absolutely totally love D'Arienzo, but he has also produced some utter total crap along with the brilliant stuff. The brilliant is usually from the earlier years, later it gets worse and worse. It's been said he sometimes showed "bad taste" - I think that is accurate.
D'Arienzo has a smaller range than Di Sarli - there is much less difference between different tracks, so there is slightly less incentive to use him. A bit of a one-trick pony, you might say.
Now I'm making him sound like an inferior musician... not the case, I am just comparing him to the very best, and yes, overall Di Sarli is better.
That being said, the good stuff is just great, it's just that there is less variation.
D'Arienzo is often a bit intimidating for beginners I think, because there is so much going on and it is a bit relentless generally. Once one understands that one doesn't have to run, it gets easier. For more advanced dancers, D'Arienzo allows you to go a bit crazy I guess.
When DJing, I usually play 1 or 2 tandas of D'Arienzo, during a longer evening (6 hours or so) maybe 3, but that excludes valses (1 tanda usually) and milongas (1 tanda).
So in conclusion then: tango: not as much as Di Sarli; vals: same or more; milonga: more.

 

[dchester]

Alright then, D'Arienzo:
I absolutely totally love D'Arienzo, but he has also produced some utter total crap along with the brilliant stuff. The brilliant is usually from the earlier years, later it gets worse and worse. It's been said he sometimes showed "bad taste" - I think that is accurate.
D'Arienzo has a smaller range than Di Sarli - there is much less difference between different tracks, so there is slightly less incentive to use him. A bit of a one-trick pony, you might say.
Now I'm making him sound like an inferior musician... not the case, I am just comparing him to the very best, and yes, overall Di Sarli is better.
That being said, the good stuff is just great, it's just that there is less variation.
D'Arienzo is often a bit intimidating for beginners I think, because there is so much going on and it is a bit relentless generally. Once one understands that one doesn't have to run, it gets easier. For more advanced dancers, D'Arienzo allows you to go a bit crazy I guess.
When DJing, I usually play 1 or 2 tandas of D'Arienzo, during a longer evening (6 hours or so) maybe 3, but that excludes valses (1 tanda usually) and milongas (1 tanda).
So in conclusion then: tango: not as much as Di Sarli; vals: same or more; milonga: more.

I'm not sure which one of these applies to me.

 

[Andreas Wichter]

Troilo:
There are three groups of Troilo tangos I usually play: The 1941 instrumentals like Cachirulo and Cordon de Oro, the 1941-43 recordings with Fiorentino, and the recordings with Alberto Marino (1943+). The first group is quite limited in number, with Fiorentino there are lots of brilliant tracks to choose from (and with quite a bit of range between rhythmic and lyrical), and there is just not so much useable material to put a good Marino tanda together as many of those recordings tend towards the nether edge of danceability.
I don't like the later recordings of Troilo at all, much of it is undanceable.
My favourites are the Fiorentinos, so quite often that is what I play and then I run out of milonga to play more Troilo. 1 tanda is the usual, very occasionally I get to play a second one, often the instrumentals. I aim to play some Troilo/Marino this Friday in Italy, though.
Troilo is challenging stuff to dance to, especially if you really want to do it justice. Quite complex usually. I might not play any Troilo if the dance level at a milonga is too low.
I just wish there were better quality transfers available.

 

[Andreas Wichter]

Pugliese:
As was mentioned earlier on this thread, early Pugliese is different from the late dramatic (often overblown) stuff.
Let me get this straight: I love Pugliese's music (there are a few late recordings that are just too much, granted, and his milongas are best forgotten), and he is one of the greatest tango musicians who ever lived. His best stuff is absolutely stunning.
The downside is that a lot of tracks don't really stand out, they sound a bit samey. Stll, there is easily enough good stuff to build dozens of excellent tandas. The range is a bit limited, though, with a tendency towards the dramatic.
This means you have to be careful when to play it - people need to be ready for it.
There are, as mentioned, the earlier recordings which exhibit much less drama than the late ones - some instrumentals like El Rodeo and Tierra Querida are rather nicely restrained, and then there are the recordings with Roberto Chanel which are extraordinarily rich and juicy but not overblown like many of the Alberto Moran tracks. Check out Corrientes y Esmeralda or Rondando tu Esquina.
Pugliese is best done in small doses I think, like strong drink.
One tanda per evening is my usual dose, but a longish milonga can take 2 - maybe a Chanel tanda at or slightly before the midpoint, and an early 50s tanda during the last quarter. And maybe, just maybe that one vals tanda I have...

 

[AndaBien]

I've heard it said that Troilo was one of the four great bands, but I don't personally like him all that much. From what I know of his (my own collection of 3 CDs), he seems somehow a bit homogenized, uninspiring, elevator music.

 

[Andreas Wichter]

I would agree that Troilo is one of the absolute top orchestras, although personally I like only the stuff from a very narrow window (1941-1943 or so). That, however, is absolutely brilliant. I don't know which CDs you have, but listen to El Tamango, Cachirulo, Cordon de Oro or Guapeando for instrumentals, to La Luz de un Fosforo and Farolito de Papel for Troilo-Marino, and to Toda Mi Vida, Maragata, Te Aconsejo De Mi Olvides, El Encopao or Corazon No Le Hagas Caso for Troilo-Fiorentino. Incredibly good music, and allowing mindblowing dances.