Tango: Remember 'Name that Tune'?

gclarke

New Member
Well this is name that step.

BTW, Did you get that TV program outside the UK? Maybe not.

Anyway I am going to have one try at seeing if I can put a proper name to some of my tango steps. If it looks impossible I will call it a day.

Simple bit starting with a SSQQS going in a circular fashion.

Begin facing 12 oclock, end facing 6 oclock.
SS stepping forward(male) backward (female)
QQS continue but circling round.

What have I got? 2 walks and something else or does it have a name all of it's own?
 
The next is SQQS
being another step, same direction, then 3 rocks
followed by QQS on a quarter turn to finish now facing 3 oclock.

There I go. Now I have probably made it sound more complicated than it is.:headwall:
 
Yep, wyllo nailed it, that's a prog. side step reverse turn with the regular rock turn ending! *ding ding ding* :-)
 
Wow now I'm getting somewhere.
So...
How would I write that if we were discussing it and which bits are part of which steps
eg
SSQQS Progressive side step reverse turn?
SQQS QQS Rock Turn?

Then my next question is - yes you've guessed it - I see that as 9 in my head, ie 18 beats, 4 measures +2 extra beats (hope I have that right).

The next bit is another rock turn except we start with two steps forward for Dave, back for me, SSQQS QQS, so we end up with another quarter turn, back where we started, or thereabouts, making a grand total of:
SSQQS Progressive side step reverse turn 8 beats
SQQS QQS Rock turn 10 beats
SSQQS QQS Rock turn 12 beats

I think I read somewhere that Tango was written is 2 connecting measures, ie 8 beats, making a phrase. So the first bit makes 1 phrase but then ???. I can live with that - I'm just begining to accept that I can't dance in numerical counts, but I would kind of like to know I get to the end of that section in 32 beats (8 measures,4 phrases). Is that naive?

Before we added more to the routine, we did that twice. When we dance it, I have no idea what happend in class, too much going on in my head, but at home, I use Carmen (Habanera) which has such distictive 'phrasing' and I naturally pause at the end to make the missing two beats, but I have no idea if that is correct or if I should find those 2 beats elsewhere.

I listened intently on Thursday to make absolutely sure that what the instructor was counting in Ss And Qs was as I thought and sure enough, it definitely adds up to 30 beats.

So is that a fairly usual way for beginners to dance the Tango, with pauses?

I assume I am correct in thinking we couldn't possibly repeat that section without making up the extra two beats?
 
How would I write that if we were discussing it and which bits are part of which steps
eg
SSQQS Progressive side step reverse turn?
SQQS QQS Rock Turn?

"By the book," the prog. s.s. rev. turn is: QQSSQQSQQS (just omit the first SS from your above).

By the way, I'm going to use the widely-accepted 4/4 standard for timing in tango here where S=2, Q=1, not 2/4 as is the official ISTD standard where S=1 and Q=1/2, so this thread won't degenerate into an unproductive argument over beats, as this has already been covered in a recent thread.

The prog. s.s. rev turn figure itself as I wrote it above is 14 beats, so it does not both begin and end on phrase with standard tango music. See below.

I think I read somewhere that Tango was written is 2 connecting measures, ie 8 beats, making a phrase. So the first bit makes 1 phrase but then ???. I can live with that - I'm just begining to accept that I can't dance in numerical counts, but I would kind of like to know I get to the end of that section in 32 beats (8 measures,4 phrases). Is that naive?

Before we added more to the routine, we did that twice. When we dance it, I have no idea what happend in class, too much going on in my head, but at home, I use Carmen (Habanera) which has such distictive 'phrasing' and I naturally pause at the end to make the missing two beats, but I have no idea if that is correct or if I should find those 2 beats elsewhere.

Figures in quickstep, bronze american foxtrot, int'l tango, swing/jive, among others, frequently feature this lack of phrasing to the music for individual figures. The best thing you can do for now is just to get used to it in your tango. If you have your routine used in your group class, by all means, stick to it for learning's sake, and just forget about it, as it's normal. I know you want individual figures to phrase correctly, and it's actually a VERY good thing that it bothers you that it doesn't, because that means you have a strong connection with the music, which is much better than not realizing this and saying "huh?" when we talk about phrasing.

So with our sequence of 14 beats for the prog. s.s. rev. turn, we can do a couple of things if we wanted that specific part to fit well into the 2 basic phrases we are likely to hear (4 measures = 16 beats = 2 phrases).

+ We can start on the '1' with the QQS[...], and we'll have 2 beats to do something with at the end: either hold in place for 2 beats (one 'S'), or we can do something else, like a walk, which will take up 2 beats (again, a 'S'), or a link, which will take up 2 beats (QQ).
+ If your other foot was free before the figure started, you could do a walk first (a 'S', on the '1'), and then begin the figure (on the '3') and you will finish on phrase.
+ You could do a prog. side step (QQ) and then do the figure, and finish on phrase.

The take-home message here g, is to just not worry about phrasing for now. Learn the figures and how to do them, and realize that you will frequently end up not finishing on phrase. American Tango figures all begin and end on phrase which is nice, but often what really causes it is simply adding a walk, a progressive side step, or some basic element to fill in the gap. Once you get comfortable with the dance, you will see where you can put in basic elements like these into your international tango to make it phrase as you'd like.
 
Josh thank you so so much. That was a really useful reply.

I know you say not to worry about the phrasing at the moment, and I fully take that on board, but just knowing that
... frequently feature this lack of phrasing to the music for individual figures
actually means I CAN quit worrying about it.

I know most people at this stage, my husband included, will just be happy they get through it, but I just wonder, do I have it right or have I missed something?

Actually, it's quite strange how it used to seem such a lot of steps, but somehow putting names to the parts makes me think it's not much at all (as it must seem of all of you).

Can we try naming one more 'bit'?

Tangotime kindly helped me trying to name the final part of our routine but I need the bit in the middle to see if it works :grin:

After what I hope I can now call
SS (walks)
QQSSQQSQQS (prog. s.s. rev.)
SS
QQS QQS (rock step)

We start our second 'section'
SS (walks)
QQS
QQS

These last two QQS each produce a half turn each
ie from female perpective
SS 2 steps back RL
Q back turning anti-clockwise R
Q forward turning anti-clockwise L
S forward R
Q forward turning anti-clockwise L
Q backward turning anti-clockwise R
S backward L

I hope I have that down right. This means our first section of 30 beats left us back where we started and this new bit of 12 beats takes us across the floor and very roughly facing the same way we started.

I began life thinking cha cha was going to be my favourite but, would you believe, I have a feeling it may well be the tango which I hated to begin with ;)
 
Sounds like an american tango figure often referred to as contra rocks, though you don't describe the contra action in the step--it just sounds like it.
 
Sounds like an american tango figure often referred to as contra rocks, though you don't describe the contra action in the step--it just sounds like it.
Josh I think it may be an Open Reverse Turn. I found something on the net with little green footprints. This is so hard to work out this way.

I think it may be as close as I'm going to get. I will write down what I think our routine is and try and get a few moments to ask our instructor if I have it right.

Thanks Josh
 
Lol, I think I was trying to make that more difficult--yes you're probably right, it now sounds like a reverse turn. But note that it's not a half turn for each QQS usually--just as in waltz/foxtrot, etc., the amount of turn is typically 3/8, not 1/2--though you could do 1/2, or less than 3/8 if you wished.
 
Morning Josh

Yes I think the subject of angles and turns is going to be a good one. It's something we haven't addressed yet but I'm becoming very aware that everything is not quite as it seems.

Another of my frustrations is that I'm only just begining to relate to our position on the dance floor. We learn something that would take us round a corner but have to practice it mostly wherever we happen to be when the instructor calls it. We get very little opportunity to actually go round the floor, working out where we should be.

With our Tango routine we have part 1 that leaves us exactly where we started and part two where we seem to move quite a bit, ending up several feet further down on the opposite side of the floor facing the other way.

As of yet, I have no idea whether this is for turning a corner, such as we would do in the Waltz or Quickstep, or just one of the intricacies of the Tango.

I'm getting quite fond of the Tango but I can't see how on earth we are going to do it on a crowded floor and keep out of everyones way. The waltz is bad enough. Even in class when we all do EXACTLY the same steps everyone is all over the place. I make a point of staying in line with the intructors wife then lately I go home and try it with tiny tiny steps in my 3mx2m space in my gym so I see where it takes me at the corners.

One of the things that has everyone in stitches is when we start something we've done well for a while from a different place in the room and the whole class just falls apart. It's funny at the time but frustrating as it means we still can't be let loose on the dance floor outside of class.

We have the monthly dance coming up next Saturday and it's the first time I feel confident enough to try all the dances we've been learning. It costs a whole £1 to get it. Crazy or what!
 
Just thinking about that Open Reverse Turn now.

I can see the first QQs we do 3/8 but I wrongly described it as 1/2. The second we appear to be doing 1/2, probably incorrectly.

So another question.

I think we have stepped outside each other at that stage. Then we do a swivel with my left foot coming from the outside back, through and forward, leaving us (I think) in prom position. I have no idea what the man does :(

So, assuming what I've described is recognisable, would that swivel change my position 3/8 or a half. It appears to be half but who knows :rolleyes:

We finish the swivel with a tap (my right), step through on the tapping foot and a QQS 1/4 turn (or maybe 3/8)
 
GC - is your husband as into the steps as you obviously are? I hope so since he actually has to lead them :) While its great to get into these details when you are starting eventually the steps themselves have to become automatic and you, as the follower, have to actually stop thinking about them. Your husband will too while he is dancing but he always has to be conscious of them for changes in routine and leading through a crowd. One of the challenges to the follower is this process of ceding control and not thinking about where the step should go.

What you don't want to do is to think so hard about the steps that you become an independent dancer - correcting or back-leading your partner. Just something to also think about as you progress.
 
Thanks Elise

I do hear what you are saying and I will switch off from over-thinking things as they come clearer.

You are pretty much saying what I feel very strongly. With my dreadful memory, I have to be able to do the first learned steps instinctively so I can concentrate on the new bits plus rely on Dave whose memory is far better than mine.

At the moment though, the frustration comes from being in the wrong place at the wrong time. That would be fine if we were able to get to the end without it stopping us although I hate doing something repeatedly that I feel is not right.

Of course I am mostly only asking questions about the bits that are stopping us progressing. Our Rumba and Cha Cha for example, I'm quite sure have just as many 'mistakes' but the difference is we can get through the routine.

As to Dave, the answer is no, he won't focus on his hobbies in quite the same way I do, and until last week I would have said he wasn't interested as long as he could get round.

BUT last week he had a bad week. We are getting to the stage where each dance now has more intricate steps (a relative term ;)). He was VERY concious of the fact that the instructor was one way and he was the other. I had my back to the demonstration so not much help.

We got to the Tango 4 step and we both wanted to go backwards. Disaster. We did 4 dances in an hour and each was not good. He came home and wanted me to go over the steps with him, which is the blind leading the blind.

I don't mind working through something at home and getting a part wrong, eg, 6 parts I can cope with and 1 part to correct. To me that's easier than fumbling through the whole lot. Dave's mind won't go that way though, so I hesitate to practice with him the way I do unless I'm reasonably confident I have remembered correctly.

And with the Tango .... well let's just say it's going to take a while.
 

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