Tango Vals

[opendoor]

Ok, AndaBien, I don´t want to be too missionary. But you will know that prophecy somehow tends to hypostatize and that concepts will reshape weeker characters. So only for educational purpose I would suggest rather the use of vals porteño, vals cruzado, or rioplatense. I do not prefer vals argentino any longer because throughout the land rather valses as chamamé or vals criolla seem to be specified by this term.

Can you supply a reference for that, please?

Unfortunately I cannot. There are too many vals threads on DF. You haven´t been on board then, but border definitely was. Sorry!

 

[Mario7]

how about just 'Vals' ? we have the context already

 

[AndaBien]

Vals is what the music is called in CDs.

 

[Subliminal]

I just say Vals or Argentine Waltz.

Funny side note... My first teacher, born and raised in BsAs, dancing AT for 25+ years... Uses only English terms when teaching. She says Waltz for Vals, rock steps for cunitas, turn for giro, etc. I think she is proud of her English skills. Or maybe she thinks it sounds cooler in English, the same way many teachers here think it sounds cooler to use the Spanish name.

 

[UKDancer]

One dance school around here teaches "Argentine Milonga" - that doesn't sound right ...

 

[opendoor]

..'Vals' .. we have the context already

Yes, We have. But I´m also under way in different scenes. Outside our tank no one will understand "Let´s play a mazurka, then a vals". Among musicians 'vals' is an umbrella term.

 

[UKDancer]

Among musicians 'vals' is an umbrella term.

Is that a German perspective, given that there is no great pronunciation difference between Waltz & Vals? Here, where a W & V are distinctly different, vals will only usually mean one thing.

 

[opendoor]

UKdancer, I don´t want to believe that there actually is a here and there.

 

[dchester]

Honestly border, I´m disappointed by the fact that you have re-animated the term tango vals. We cannot lecture those authors any more, but I actually thought that we agreed to discard this unfortunate word in this forum.

IMO, what difference does it really make? I would say, none. As long as people clearly understand what you are referring to, it seems counter productive to argue about the correct terminology. Now if you say something and it's unclear or ambiguous, then it's worth discussing.

My two cents.

 

[JohnEm]

IMO, what difference does it really make? I would say, none. As long as people clearly understand what you are referring to, it seems counter productive to argue about the correct terminology. Now if you say something and it's unclear or ambiguous, then it's worth discussing.

I disagree (well I would, wouldn't I!)

In Argentina there is no (need of) a qualifier.
It's the Vals, sometimes Vals Cruzada but not Tango Vals as it isn't
tango music, it's waltz music. They (and me) dance in the embrace
(mainly unbroken) just the same but the rhythm and feel of the music
results in a different flow of movement and a different feel from tango.

Abroad we perhaps need a qualifier - after all Vals in Austria
is Viennese, in the UK it's usually a (slow) waltz or maybe (rarely)
Viennese. But if we are in tango circles we still need no qualifier,
it's the Vals. Outside tango circles or to beginners the best solution
remains Argentine Vals. It helps separate Vals from Tango and avoids
the misinterpretation that you just carry on in a tango way regardless
of the music being Vals.

I'd love to see people being encouraged to actually respond
to the very different motivation of Vals music.

 

[Steve Pastor]

Outside our tank no one will understand "Let´s play a mazurka, then a vals".

I only know of marzuka based on what I read in the old dance books I've looked at.

I'd love to see people being encouraged to actually respond
to the very different motivation of Vals music.

I think I know what you mean, and I agree.

 

[opendoor]

"Let´s play a mazurka, then a vals".

I only know of marzuka based on what I read in the old dance books I've looked at.

That´s tank-dependent, too. The "folkies" in Europe love mazurkas, also the Québécois in your vicinity. And I think also among the waltzes of your own C&W-scenen some mazurkas will hide out. Not to speak of several waltzes in your slavic-american polka-communities.

 

[danceposa]

SOmeone commented that some VAls phrases last 4 or 6 bars..... I am musically literate and I have examined most well known vals and they are all 8 bars long. Exactly the same as Viennese Waltz. Remember that many of the immigrants would have been musicians and versed in that taboo dance. It was considered very risque to dance in close embrace when the viennese waltz came on the scene. For those that find it difficult to dance giros in VAls then you should practise and learn the milonguero style of giro which works in a crowded milonga and suits vals perfectly allowing gwentle sacadas to be performed. See something with Jorge and Alexandria to see how its done. Also the media luna performed either in parallel or cross system works great on both sides. BUT not many leaders can do "stuff" on the closed side so PRACTISE IT! Also cadenas can be done in small spaces in a circular movements. Listen again and count out the 1s and you will find it generally phrases out at 8! Read joaqin Amenabar "Lets Dance" He is a orquestra bandoneon leader in Buenas Aires and his book and DVD is invaluable .

 

[Steve Pastor]

Oh, darn, here I was getting excited about someone actually writing about "dancing to the music" and the YouTube video I hit was so full of adornments and large movement by the woman...
Still I get the point about having different parts, as do the instuments. (At least that's what I see there.)

Still, welcome, danceposa!
I see Clay Nelson (aka Mr Portland Tango Festivals) is onto the book, too.

 

[opendoor]

SOmeone commented that some VAls phrases last 4 or 6 bars..... I am musically literate and I have examined most well known vals and they are all 8 bars long. Exactly the same as Viennese Waltz. Remember that many of the immigrants would have been musicians and versed in that taboo dance.....

Hi danceposa, welcome to DF. Think vals wasn´t tabooed in BsAs before the year 1900 any more. And by the way, also tango is still tabooed in a lot of middle class families in BsAs of today. And you´ve got a point there with the viennese waltz. It actually has got much more to do with the vals cruzado as with the tango itself. Vals developed between the influences of upper class viennese waltz (3/4) and downtown vals criolla (6/8). (Much the same as which tango that developed somewhere between military march music and habanera dancing.) And because the vals clearly has it´s origins in europe, the rioplatense composers stole a lot of our melodies. And one of the biggest thieves used to be Canaro. I once read a dissertation thesis on this subject.