Teachers: do you dance at Milongas?

[Dave Bailey]

I agree that most traveling teachers teach patterns. IMO, what you may be missing is that at some point, the pattern is supposed to be taken apart and assimilated into your own dance. Some teachers fully explain this, and others do not.

Almost all teachers in London never, ever, explain this.

Although I do

 

[Dave Bailey]

I'm sure they do. I wonder if they can tell me for how long an inexperienced leader does have to think about what they are doing (just the overhead of maintaining an awareness of which foot the follower is on is significant, particularly when dancing with other beginners, whose body language is often giving nothing very much away), before the responsibility to keep going can be moved from the conscious to the sub-conscious.

I try to use the 4-point learning model (unconscious incompetence -> conscious incompetence -> conscious competence -> unconscious competence) as a rough analogy for the learning process, for each of the many areas required to dance tango.

But in answer to your question ("how long to get from conscious competence -> unconscious competence") is "it depends"... to get the basics of dancing competently without conscious thought will take years, definitely. Maybe as little as a year, if you do a lot of work, but possibly as many as "never".

 

[JohnEm]

I try to use the 4-point learning model (unconscious incompetence -> conscious incompetence -> conscious competence -> unconscious competence) as a rough analogy for the learning process, for each of the many areas required to dance tango.

How do you mean "try to use" the 4-point learning model?

Surely it's no more than a method of trying to explain the adult learning
processes and the possible stages we go through. I don't see it as a model
to be followed or implemented but just a rational way of explanation
that the conscious and unconscious stages are entirely normal.

But in answer to your question ("how long to get from conscious competence -> unconscious competence") is "it depends"... to get the basics of dancing competently without conscious thought will take years, definitely. Maybe as little as a year, if you do a lot of work, but possibly as many as "never".

Yes, as individual as . . . err . . . individuals.
And perhaps how much you want to challenge yourself.

There's a weird stage too of realisation that you just danced unconsciously,
wondering then just how you did it, and the realisation that whatever
it was you had you've just lost again. Perhaps it's just me?

 

[bordertangoman]

"Oh, yes, he's that weird guy up North" sums it up I reckon.

cheers ; something new for my sig....

although I suspect I maybe like that alien in Ray Bradbury's Martian Chronicles who become whoever was projected on him.....

 

[UKDancer]

I try to use the 4-point learning model (unconscious incompetence -> conscious incompetence -> conscious competence -> unconscious competence) as a rough analogy for the learning process, for each of the many areas required to dance tango.

But in answer to your question ("how long to get from conscious competence -> unconscious competence") is "it depends"... to get the basics of dancing competently without conscious thought will take years, definitely. Maybe as little as a year, if you do a lot of work, but possibly as many as "never".

Ah well, I guess I'm currently stuck being conscious of my incompetence. But as Peaches said, it's not a race, and perhaps I just have to be a bit more patient with myself (unless I run out of followers who will dance with me at all, but then there are other towns...)

 

[Dave Bailey]

I'm very grateful for all of the helpful comments, and I have enough experience to recognise lots of good advice, which I will try and apply to my own dancing. I talked about my 'problems' to another dancer last night, and have been thinking through whether the perception of my own difficulties are actually the real problem, or just the symptoms of a different problem.


A few thoughts:

1. I don't spend anything like enough time dancing tango to stand any real chance of improvement, except at a painfully slow rate. I have to find a way of changing that, or I might as well just accept that tango is not for me.
2. I need to find another teacher. Mine teaches 'moves' exclusively. So not walking, the embrace/connection, musicality, navigation - not even how to link the 'moves'. Tango is not the dance he teaches, surely?
3. A few private lessons with one of the area's better teachers (and there are better teachers, but I'm never free when they hold their classes) might help me to sort out some fundamentals.
4. I must re-read (or, rather, read properly) Paz/Hart's 'Gotta Tango'. The dances I have been watching on YouTube fit their idea of the follower dancing around the leader and the leader dancing around the room. I know their terminology is baffling, but I will give it another go.
5. I need to be brave enough to start attending out-of-town milongas, hopeful of dancing with more experienced followers. Of course, I am fearful of finding them cliquey, and finding myself sitting alone in a corner, all night, and never getting a dance; but there is not an opportunity for me to dance tango in my nearest big city until 16 April, and anywhere else is unknown territory and over an hour's drive away.
6. Perhaps I should try and start a regular practica at the studio - there are quite a lot of tango dancers around here, and at least I'd always be free to attend!

I don't know why I'm writing this, really. Catharsis, I guess! And tomorrow is another day.

I tried to PM you but you're all snooty and not receiving messages - can you PM me?

 

[Dave Bailey]

How do you mean "try to use" the 4-point learning model?

In terms of explanations to people. Not in terms of how I teach. Sorry for the confusion...

 

[UKDancer]

I tried to PM you but you're all snooty and not receiving messages - can you PM me?

Ha! I've changed my message settings now. Snooty...

 

[AndaBien]

Ah well, I guess I'm currently stuck being conscious of my incompetence. But as Peaches said, it's not a race, and perhaps I just have to be a bit more patient with myself (unless I run out of followers who will dance with me at all, but then there are other towns...)

Patience is necessary when learning tango. Too many dancers fail to learn simply due to lack of patience. However, all things come to he who waits, as long as he works his b*tt off while he waits. (Is that word permissible here)?

Most improvement in AT is made through small increments. It's important for you to look for and notice those little increments. By noticing them you will strengthen them, and you'll find reward for your efforts, small as it is. (Small as the reward is). Many little improvements will make you a good dancer.

I strongly suggest "deliberate practice". Look it up. It means decide on a specific skill that you want to improve (e.a., knowing which foot your partner is on); devise a drill/practice that will focus your attention narrowly on that skill; do the practice mindfully, with huge focus of attention.

Okay, I'll stop there.

 

[bordertangoman]

Patience is necessary when learning tango. Too many dancers fail to learn simply due to lack of patience. However, all things come to he who waits, as long as he works his b*tt off while he waits. (Is that word permissible here)?

Most improvement in AT is made through small increments. It's important for you to look for and notice those little increments. By noticing them you will strengthen them, and you'll find reward for your efforts, small as it is. (Small as the reward is). Many little improvements will make you a good dancer.

I strongly suggest "deliberate practice". Look it up. It means decide on a specific skill that you want to improve (e.a., knowing which foot your partner is on); devise a drill/practice that will focus your attention narrowly on that skill; do the practice mindfully, with huge focus of attention

kaizen...

http://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Kaizen

 

[Subliminal]

It's the fancy steps that seem to keep the girls going to classes.
Men don't need them - they come out of the basics being right,
not the other way round.

What on earth does this even mean? There are plenty of men and women who are interested in complexity.

That's the best explanation I've seen of your attitude. It's understandable
too but maybe not helpful for aspiring quality leaders. Confidence can be
fragile and ephemeral and even the vaguest suggestion that partners
might be bored just shatters it.

I'm not sure why you are commenting on her attitude. I think it's a very valid point, particularly for leaders who are going the minimalist route. Just because it is possible to dance an interesting dance with no special moves, only walking, does not mean every leader can do so. Or that every follower would want to do so.

Leaders who want to go this way should understand they still have to work at it.

 

[AndaBien]

...Just because it is possible to dance an interesting dance with no special moves, only walking, does not mean every leader can do so. Or that every follower would want to do so.

Leaders who want to go this way should understand they still have to work at it.

Certainly true. I've focused my attention on trying to do simple steps very well - Cacho was my inspiration - and certain women don't care to dance with me because that's all I do. That's fine with me: we're simply not a match on the dance floor, and that happens.

 

[dchester]

Certainly true. I've focused my attention on trying to do simple steps very well - Cacho was my inspiration - and certain women don't care to dance with me because that's all I do. That's fine with me: we're simply not a match on the dance floor, and that happens.

No matter how good you get, there will always be someone who won't like you. Such is life.

 

[AndaBien]

No matter how good you get, there will always be someone who won't like you. Such is life.

And I so wanted to please them all!

 

[Melina + Detlef]

There is one big TABU for Tango-teachers: That's teaching during a Milonga.

When going to a Milonga, a teacher might be asked to do a demo, but anything that is related to teaching should be off-limits. It belongs into classes.

Sometimes, people I dance with at a Milonga ask me for my advice or comment after the dance. I refuse to give it and tell them, that - during a Milonga - I am no teacher.

I do not even dance out of politeness. In case that I am too tired (after classes), or do not like the music, or do not want to dance with this particular person in this moment - I will refuse to dance. And I will not dance with someone to convince hm to take/organise classes with us.

So, if you meet teachers at Milongas who,
- teach during the Tanda,
- promote their classes to their dance partner actively,
- have to show off on the dance floor to impress future students/organisers,
...
just ignore them.

They will most likely not be very self-confident people or are desperate to fill empty classes. A teacher, who's got a good paedagogy and a professional approach to his job does not need that kind of invasive marketing.

Flyers, Inernet-Sites, Emails, Demos and not to forget word of mouth... that's already a lot of means to attract people attention. You do not have to crowd them at Milongas!

Good day,

Melina