That sublime tango flow thing....

[Light Sleeper]

For those who haven't read the thread on the general dance article or who haven't heard the term before, quick definition from Wiki "Flow is the mental state of operation in which the person is fully immersed in what he or she is doing by a feeling of energized focus, full involvement, and success in the process of the activity."

That's too textbook though to describe the tango feeling, yes, you're totally absorbed but it's quite special when both of you are absorbed and one with each other and the music. Sigh. Had forgotten what it was like. Not experienced it for a LONG time but it happened again this weekend. Previously it was with a particular leader and he moved away so I only danced with him a few times but each time we were both speechless and in a bit of a dream after a tanda. Very nice. So anyway, I'm curious what other dancer's experience of this is - do you have it often? Is it only to particular music or with particular partners?

 

[Mario7]

Good topic!.. you could say that 'flow' is why I dance. For me, it only happens with certain women dancers who really are good at AT close embrace. And so, I look to dance with them when I can. There are various wome capable of this but mostly only one or two at any one time are in the mind-set that they are really, really available to produce this magic on any given night. Any stiffness, breaking of the embrace, inability to follow, balance problems, anticipations, etc. would probably throw enough stones into the shoe to make the dance uncomfortable. On my part, I do not try moves that I haven't done many, many times and don't have to think about...I only have 4 or 5 such; ocho-cortado, giro, cross, etc. but they don't require planning and I am fully, FULLY concentrated on the music and the sweeping feel of my partner. A few such experiences (2or3) will make the night a total success for me. In fact, it will advance my dancing skill like nothing else could even come close to.
I want to add after thinking more on this: that there are many woman who are capable of this and do it with others (flow) but won't with me...they may have pre-judged me or simply don't like something about me to the degree that they won't be there in that special way when dancing with me.

 

[Madahlia]

So anyway, I'm curious what other dancer's experience of this is - do you have it often? Is it only to particular music or with particular partners?

Not nearly often enough!

Sometimes with familiar and well-loved partners.

Sometimes out of the blue with complete strangers.

It has to be to music that pleases me but that's a fairly broad spectrum.

I have to be in a particular state of mind anyway beforehand - confident, relaxed but energised, and with an ability to totally concentrate on the present moment without an inner commentary.

It has to be with a partner with whom I somehow feel accepted regardless of whether it is a friend or a stranger and also without fears or expectations on my behalf of my performance or his!

In fact, I can't remember when I last had this experience dancing tango. Possibly I would only count half a dozen dances of this special kind in the whole time I have been involved in partner dancing. (About 9 years.)

 

[bordertangoman]

I think its the music that really makes it possible and 90% of tango music is pretty dire and uninspiring; i feel this because I heard a live performance of Piazzolla's Oblivion. I rarely play it since I dont know many good followers who can dance slow. My partner that evening was struggling with her balance even though she could feel how I was dancing with the music and is someone I like dancing with very much. Paradoxically I get better flow results when I forget about my partner, stuff being considerate and caring; ; even one of my closest friends who hates milonga says she likes dancing it with me when I "just take off". Some women dont get Pugliese so I think there has to be a musical congruence.

 

[dchester]

For those who haven't read the thread on the general dance article or who haven't heard the term before, quick definition from Wiki "Flow is the mental state of operation in which the person is fully immersed in what he or she is doing by a feeling of energized focus, full involvement, and success in the process of the activity."

That's too textbook though to describe the tango feeling, yes, you're totally absorbed but it's quite special when both of you are absorbed and one with each other and the music. Sigh. Had forgotten what it was like. Not experienced it for a LONG time but it happened again this weekend. Previously it was with a particular leader and he moved away so I only danced with him a few times but each time we were both speechless and in a bit of a dream after a tanda. Very nice. So anyway, I'm curious what other dancer's experience of this is - do you have it often? Is it only to particular music or with particular partners?

I wasn't sure if you were referring to what some people call "connection", or something else. So I went to look up the Wiki page to get a little more insight. I think this is the reference that you cited.
http://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Flow_(psychology)

After reading this, I think it is referring to what I would call "In the zone", rather than "connection". Is this how you see it? The reason I ask, is because connection is greatly influenced by not only my own performance, but also the follower and the music. Being "in the zone" is mostly about my own performance (I'm dancing really well, and any move I've ever done, I'll execute it flawlessly). Connection is different from this, (at least for me).

I had a couple tandas this weekend were I really felt connected (and it may have been more due to the follower (and the music) than it was me. However I honestly can't say that I was "in the zone". That's a much more rare thing for me, but when it happens, it (almost) doesn't matter who the follower is.

 

[opendoor]

an indicator of the sublime thing called Flow

..I'm curious what other dancer's experience of this is - do you have it often? Is it only to particular music or with particular partners?

I have it now and then... I cannot predict it, it comes and passes. Factors that affect it: the music, the moon, the mood, and the partner.... But when it occurs, another thing occurs, too: that left hand playing of the women at your neck! It is a good indicator for the flow!

... Connection is different ..

... from flow, but somehow it is connected with it. Think there are three main connections in TA, connection between the couple, to the floor, to the music. The flow has got to do with the music, but also with your proficiency. It is difficult for me to define.

 

[dchester]

I have it now and then... I cannot predict it, it comes and passes. Factors that affect it: the music, the moon, the mood, and the partner.... But when it occurs, another thing occurs, too: that left hand playing of the women at your neck! It is a good indicator for the flow!

... from flow, but somehow it is connected with it. Think there are three main connections in TA, connection between the couple, to the floor, to the music. The flow has got to do with the music, but also with your proficiency. It is difficult for me to define.

That's why I was trying to find out what the OP was referring to. I do understand about connection to the music, and connection to/between my follower, but I don't understand connection to the floor.

None of these these things get at what I would describe as being "in the zone", which was in the Wiki article that I posted previously. It's a type of focus (and proficiency), that infrequently occurs, where everything seems so easy (almost like things are going in slow motion). You seem to be able to execute anything that you know about. In sports, it's sort of like playing over your head, where (for a an hour or a few) you are much better than you typically are.

 

[opendoor]

.. describe as being "in the zone"..

At this point I cannot follow the article. For me beyond would fit.

 

[Madahlia]

Borrowed from another thread:

................the dance was electric because the woman I was dancing with was giving me her total attention.

Being able to give total attention as a follower usually marks out a dance as special for me, and is surprisingly hard to achieve.

Think there are three main connections in TA, connection between the couple, to the floor, to the music.

Awareness of these three aspects also characterises a special dance. I know I am having a good night when I am really feeling the floor. D.Chester - the floor, and our connection to it by means of gravity, is something that no-one ever gives much thought to as it is so rooted in our unconscious experience but without it there could be no balance, energy (from pushing against it) or pivoting. Having to do tango, especially in high heels, really sharpens my awareness of how my foot is meeting the floor and using it. At least, that's what opendoor's phrase means to me!

The flow has got to do with the music, but also with your proficiency. It is difficult for me to define.

People can get a sense of flow even when their level of proficiency is relatively not that high. So I'm inclined to say it's largely a psychological phenomenon.

 

[Mario7]

Awareness of these three aspects also characterises a special dance. I know I am having a good night when I am really feeling the floor. D.Chester - the floor, and our connection to it by means of gravity, is something that no-one ever gives much thought to as it is so rooted in our unconscious experience but without it there could be no balance, energy (from pushing against it) or pivoting. .

I agree with this..one of my most stunning memories was when first going
out onto the floor, I felt my feet sinking into it and moving/massaging it..it was wonderfull..total connection.

 

[dchester]

At this point I cannot follow the article. For me beyond would fit.

I'll admit that my eyes did stat to glaze over, when reading the article, until I got the the sections on Music and Sports. That's when I felt I understand what the author of the the Wiki article was talking about.

"In the zone" is an American expression, (often used by athletes or performers), which describes a state (or condition, situation, experience, etc) where you are incredibly focused on whatever it is that you are doing, where everything else is blocked out, and you are able to perform at a much higher level than is typical. I've also heard some people refer to this as "tunnel vision".

 

[dchester]

People can get a sense of flow even when their level of proficiency is relatively not that high. So I'm inclined to say it's largely a psychological phenomenon.

It's certainly a psychological phenomenon, but when it happens (and it's rare), you actually do perform at higher level than what you typically are capable of (and when it occurs, you have no negative or limiting feelings). You are not only confident, but actually able to achieve at a higher level.

In addition to tango, in my youth it would occasionally happen when playing basketball. I'd be making shots that I had no business making, and being able to dribble around people and make perfect passes. However, the next game, I'd be back to normal, full of doubts, with no idea why I can't reproduce it.

 

[Angel HI]

I agree w/ much of what dchester has posted re exactly the meaning of the term and this thread. Yet, here's a cool tip.... in music and dance, the 'professional' doesn't say "flow", but more correctly, "float" (same thing; different word).

 

[Joy In Motion]

I've done a lot of research and writing on the concept of flow, so I'm very happy to see people discussing it on the forums!

What I've wondered in the course of my personal reflections is whether and to what extent it is possible for one partner to feel flow in the dance without the other feeling it too. Perhaps that is why some feel the need to distinguish between a personal flow and a higher connection between two people.

 

[Steve Pastor]

I'd be making shots that I had no business making, and being able to dribble around people and make perfect passes.

Thanks for this, because it helps me make the point that while you arent focused on one or two things, such as your partner and the music, you are "taking it all in" and responding to it without thinking. To me part of "all" includes my definition of "the floor", that being everyone and everything around you. You dont have to watch anyone in particular, but you see their motion, or lack thereof, and sync your motions to them so there are no collisions, etc.