That sublime tango flow thing....

When dancing while connected, about the only though I might have (other than bliss) is that I sure hope I don't screw this up.

:)
Even letting such a thought cross my mind is enough to drive that special state of mind away. There has to be complete, unthinking, fearlessness and confidence for me to experience it. Tango is such a mind-game, for a whole gamut of reasons, that it's very hard to achieve that state of empty-headed awareness.

Like Light Sleeper, it was almost easier when I was a complete beginner and newly-in-love with tango. Four years on, like in most relationships, things have become more complex! I'm still in love, but notice the quirks and blemishes more - and it's harder to get enthusiastic.
 
Even letting such a thought cross my mind is enough to drive that special state of mind away. There has to be complete, unthinking, fearlessness and confidence for me to experience it. Tango is such a mind-game, for a whole gamut of reasons, that it's very hard to achieve that state of empty-headed awareness.

Like Light Sleeper, it was almost easier when I was a complete beginner and newly-in-love with tango. Four years on, like in most relationships, things have become more complex! I'm still in love, but notice the quirks and blemishes more - and it's harder to get enthusiastic.

Yes on the first part, Madahlia. Among the characteristics of flow are a loss of self-consciousness and one's sense of time.

Also, experiencing flow less often once one progresses past the beginning stages of learning has been reported by quite a few. I believe this is because another characteristic of flow is the balance of challenge and skills. I think when you are a beginner you have plenty of challenges and many opportunities to rise to these challenges as your skills increase. When you reach an intermediate or advanced level, you may find less challenges depending on your community and many other factors. Your perception and mentality also have a lot to do with it. If you don't think there are any challenges for you, you may become bored. On the other hand, as Madahlia mentioned, if you are overly focused on your shortcomings or on more challenges than you can handle at one time, you may become overwhelmed.

Many people don't relate to the idea of balancing challenges and skills when it comes to flow because they think it is more about connection. And that is fine. But even if your focus is on connection, subconsciously your perception of challenges and skills (being underwhelmed or overwhelmed in the dance) affects your ability to focus on connection in the dance.

When I interviewed Alex Krebs last year, he said he also experienced flow less often in comparison to his first year or two of learning. We talked a little bit about the concept of challenge vs. skills, and he agreed that may be a factor. It's definitely a complex and intangible thing to quantify, but if you are feeling like you are having difficulty connecting and experiencing flow in the dance, shifting your perception of challenge and skill may help. I read somewhere that our minds can only handle one or two challenges at once with any success, so for many it is helpful to be more focused and specific on what they are working on or focused on in the dance. I do this and have found great results and good peace of mind, and I recommend this to my students as well.

And unfortunately, Bordermantango, the flow research out there is mainly based on people's reports on their own experiences with flow, specifically in the realms of sports and art. I have not seen any research done to determine what is happening in the brain when flow is being experienced. I think research on Zen and the brain is your best bet because the idea with Zen is that its practitioners cultivate the ability to summon the experience through a set of techniques (for lack of a better word). Flow in sports and art (at least as reported by most) tends to happen without our being able to predict it or bring it about on our own. And the experience of flow is usually relatively rare, not an everyday occurrence. So I think that is the difficulty with trying to do research on what is happening in the brain during flow. But I am really curious to know! Perhaps someone who is intimately familiar with both Zen and dance flow can speak to how much the experiences are similar and whether the science of the brain should be comparable or not.
 
Also, experiencing flow less often once one progresses past the beginning stages of learning has been reported by quite a few. I believe this is because another characteristic of flow is the balance of challenge and skills. I think when you are a beginner you have plenty of challenges and many opportunities to rise to these challenges as your skills increase. When you reach an intermediate or advanced level, you may find less challenges depending on your community and many other factors. Your perception and mentality also have a lot to do with it. If you don't think there are any challenges for you, you may become bored. On the other hand, as Madahlia mentioned, if you are overly focused on your shortcomings or on more challenges than you can handle at one time, you may become overwhelmed.
I agree. When I was learning another dance form I revelled in the sense of the dance world being like an adventure playground - as soon as I'd acquired enough basic skills to operate in it the challenge of developing and honing them was intoxicating. Connection was important too but almost incidentally as I played around with what I was capable of. The instances when connection, skill and music came together are still memorable.

It hasn't happened that way way in tango for various reasons - there's so much about the tango world that I find stuffy and uptight that it's hard to get that sense of play, and women have less freedom to pick and choose partners.

I feel that I don't do connection well in any sense - but rising to the physical challenges of dance never fails to be exciting. And sharing that, for me, helps to create mental connection.
 
"One does not dance to go into a trance but to come out of a trance, to join a diversified assembly with a seperate contribution, for dancing is a reminder that one is only part of the whole."
African Rhythm and African Sensibility p 150
Or not, I guess.

My experience dancing among these people forever changed the way I dance
tango. When I got used to moving on those crowded dance floors I found that it
wasn’t as constraining as one might think. First of all the floor still moved, so
there was always space opening ahead to move into. I never had to dance in place
for long before I had a chance to move a bit. There was enough movement to
circle a moderate sized room at least once in one tango. You could spend 6 hours
on those floors (I did) and never be bumped once. The dancing was amazingly
energetic, and dancers seemed free to dance a musical and creative dance. It was
beautiful to watch, and an amazing experience being in that flow.
Robert Hauk http://web.archive.org/web/20120510035142/http://home.teleport.com/~robhauk/navigation1.html
 
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This sounds like what I would call, "connection". It happens more for me than the other experience I was trying to describe (in the zone). It's sort of funny after a tanda when you get a good connection, as the two of us are usually trying to out compliment the other on how good they were (and there really were no fancy steps at all).

When dancing while connected, about the only though I might have (other than bliss) is that I sure hope I don't screw this up.

:)

In my mind, connection just is the fact that you are dancing with someone, it could be a bad connection or a wonderful connection but even if both dancers have a high level of skill and are physically connected it doesn't determine the exalted feelings we're talking about.
 
I have this experience regularly with certain dance partners. I become totally absorbed in the music and often forget I'm in the arms of a man. I experience a sense of weightlessness.

Yes, I know what you mean about weightlessness, but I don't want to forget i'm in somebody's arms , or that they're in my arms :-)
 
Yes on the first part, Madahlia. Among the characteristics of flow are a loss of self-consciousness and one's sense of time.

Yes, it goes in a flash.


Many people don't relate to the idea of balancing challenges and skills when it comes to flow because they think it is more about connection. And that is fine. But even if your focus is on connection, subconsciously your perception of challenges and skills (being underwhelmed or overwhelmed in the dance) affects your ability to focus on connection in the dance.

So if you're under or over challenged, 'flow' or whatever we want to call it - is less likely? Yep, that stands to reason.
I read somewhere that our minds can only handle one or two challenges at once with any success, so for many it is helpful to be more focused and specific on what they are working on or focused on in the dance. I do this and have found great results and good peace of mind, and I recommend this to my students as well.

thanks for the tip!
 
"One does not dance to go into a trance but to come out of a trance, to join a diversified assembly with a seperate contribution, for dancing is a reminder that one is only part of the whole."
African Rhythm and African Sensibility p 150
Or not, I guess.

Robert Hauk http://web.archive.org/web/20120510035142/http://home.teleport.com/~robhauk/navigation1.html

Wellllll, it depends what type and what context. I would argue that tango isn't about being part of a whole, it's about a partnership, not the wider group other than general floorcraft and politeness.

Though when we're 'floating' in tango, are we, in effect, connected to the 'collective unconscious'? And is that a way of being part of a whole?
 
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You will be assimilated
Resistance is Futile

Seriously, if you are into your own thing with your partner and the music, but you are running into other people, you are only part way there.
I THINK bmt and I are trying to make the same point that being part of a whole bunch of people who are, really, all dancing together, is probably a more difficult place to get to.
We parse it out and refer to "navigational skills".
I think I am particularly aware of this "collective" aspect to dancing because of the utterly miserable experiences I had as an AT beginner. I just could NOT for the life of me understand how people could be so rude (IMO) as to run into other couples and act like nothing had happened. (I was pretty much a target, because I was unable to do much of anything, really, to avoid collisions, although I did not run into other people, they ran into me even if I was standing still.) Tango Trance, eh? I guess.

The connection with African Dance is there, although now it is rather tenuous. The "coolness" of the dancers, especially the milongueros, can be traced to African influence, as an example.
Robert's essay references experiencing being part of a whole, and he uses the term "flow".
In the "West" we think of dancing as an individual/partner pursuit.
In Africa dance is something that helps bind the community together.

There's more in this book that Joy in Motion mentioned about how the community creates and reinforces standards. It would be useful in our AT communities to adopt the same attitudes, but it may be too much to ask. Traditional African "dance education" begins as early as you can imagine. In the West... well, you know how it is.
 
Wellllll, it depends what type and what context. I would argue that tango isn't about being part of a whole, it's about a partnership, not the wider group other than general floorcraft and politeness.

Though when we're 'floating' in tango, are we, in effect, connected to the 'collective unconscious'? And is that a way of being part of a whole?

If everyone is behaving impeccably, then yes, you can get that sense of "flow" with the floor as a whole. But that doesnt happen very often. It's also easier to see if you're observing the floor rather than dancing within it (it's a quantum thing, baby).

I love the sense in which dancing tango is thinking-not-thinking. That is when I come close to being in the flow. Any actual thinking I do then disrupts that state. Having to avoid other dancers is in that category. So I would argue that it's only really possible to achieve "flow" on (a) an uncrowded floor or (b) on a disciplined one.
 
You will be assimilated
Resistance is Futile

Seriously, if you are into your own thing with your partner and the music, but you are running into other people, you are only part way there.
I THINK bmt and I are trying to make the same point that being part of a whole bunch of people who are, really, all dancing together, is probably a more difficult place to get to.
We parse it out and refer to "navigational skills".

No, I, nor my partners did not run into people when we blissed out. I rarely allow myself to close my eyes because I'm aware I'm partly responsible for navigation.

I enjoy being part of a collective of people on a dancefloor.

But I feel the bliss from the connection with partner and music, I don't get bliss from being 'of the group'.

Is that what you're trying to get at? :confused:
 
In my mind, connection just is the fact that you are dancing with someone, it could be a bad connection or a wonderful connection but even if both dancers have a high level of skill and are physically connected it doesn't determine the exalted feelings we're talking about.
Sorry, I guess I should have said a good (or wonderful) connection. It didn't occur to me that when I said connection, people would think a bad connection was part of what I was referring to.
 
Sorry, I guess I should have said a good (or wonderful) connection. It didn't occur to me that when I said connection, people would think a bad connection was part of what I was referring to.
... didn't mean to sound pedantic, my main point was that even if you have a wonderful connection physically, you won't necessarily get the blissed out feeling. And conversely, someone said they felt 'in the zone' with me, yet their dancing is atrocious, zero physical connection, they just liked dancing with me/ having me in their arms.
 

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