ArbeeNYC
Forum Master
This! This is super important and kicks the entire dance up a notch into a different type of flow. It's beautiful when it happens.
The apilado equation
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ArbeeNYC
Forum Master
Also a problem. This level of floor craft is rarely taught and it seems that few people understand it. Also, beginners are often so eager to dance that after a handful of lessons they want to attend milongas and receive little training in the finer points of the dance. And some folks are just plain lazy. Or egotistical.
ArbeeNYC
Forum Master
IF you have a big enough floor.
And still the inner space is free for experiments.
ArbeeNYC
Forum Master
I don't think so. I think it's just the way he likes to dance. He moves into whatever open space is available. And the camera could be following the couple as they move.
I love these discussions. Where I live there is rarely a crowded floor. Beginners, nuevo, showy-dancers don’t cause any issues. The most problematic dancer is an older experienced man who dances in a completely haphazard manner. He often dances with his eyes closed! We used to joke he learned from the wrong movie (ie Scent of a Woman).
On topic he doesn’t dance Apilado but does occasionally pose dramatically.
On topic he doesn’t dance Apilado but does occasionally pose dramatically.
TTanguero
Forum Master
You can see him come straight to the camera person afterwards.
To me, if I'd been dancing in that ronda, it would be distracting, because I'd have to have 10% of my attention on where he's going and what he might do next. To me, this is selfish dancing.
Mr. Moustachio
Active Member
The pictures are stills. What direction are they moving? For all you know, they're doing turns.
ArbeeNYC
Forum Master
It's not a very crowded milonga to begin with and he's been dancing for decades, and he's good. There's no reason to turn your attention to him anymore than anyone else in that video does. The man knows what he's doing. There's nothing illegal about moving into an empty space as long as you're not blocking anyone else.
TTanguero
Forum Master
Watch the other couples as they hesitate when they come past him, at 00:57 for example.
LadyLeader
Forum Master
If a community maintains different kinds of stories about pista, IMO a larger number of dancers could become active, participate and a good enough pista would be possible.
More detailed in floor craft discussion #119
How to teach floor craft ?
In the BR world, social dancing is mostly neglected because the ambitious dancers collect metals and keep to themselves. But the competition circus acts as a motor to fill the dance schools. There is nothing comparable with tango. Ideally, all levels meet at the milonga You've never attended a...
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From a general "floorcraft" perspective" this is amazing. The general look of this is very similar to what we see in good social dancing - either in old clips or in milongas that "feel like" they have flow.
And there are several aspects that challenge the "how to teach floorcraft" orthodoxy.
1) different couples move at different speeds
2) there are no lanes
3) vocabulary is not a problem (i actually find the idea of dancing on a dancefloor that crowded while being locked into this jenka dance pattern somewhat frightening - but looking at how couples navigating this there are obviously tools within that pattern to adjust speed and direction)
4) the "train" pattern where people just follow each other is not happening at all.
So if none of these are actually necessary (useful?) for good floorcraft what is? Especially in the context of me claiming that "tango is a freeform circle dance".
(i also danced a lot of just with my partner - we used to rent a studio and do something like .5 technical stuff, and .5 "just dancing" to work on fluency (and honestly to keep from getting bored and frustrated), and i never found dancing without having a ronda all that satisfying.)
The only thing i can come up with is something like "try not to mess up others dance", but that is too general to be useful. A beginner couple plodding around and being in general a moving obstacle is usually no problem, a great dancer who dances to something in the music only they can hear can be difficult to be around.
I wonder people learning a circle dance first might give people some ideas? - e.g. looking at a relics like the vienna opera ball what the debutantes dance at the opening is not a couples dance but a circle dance. When explaining floorcraft having an emphasis on dance as a social experience where other couples are not opponents/obstacles to freely expressing out dance, but partners in creating the ronda/circle. Maybe we should thing of floorcraft not something neccessay to avoid the negative consequences of being in a crowded spaces, but as a something desirable to gain the positive energy of the ronda. Dancing chacarera in a line is a better experience than dancing it only as a couple. (though strangely enough i don't feel quite the same way about zamba - it is structurally similar, but much more a couples dance). The folk dancers i have seen seemed to tend to create smaller huddles when the dancefloor is to big for the number of people they have, not separating them wider.
ArbeeNYC
Forum Master
What has this to do with choreography?If a community maintains different kinds of stories about pista, IMO a larger number of dancers could become active, participate and a good enough pista would be possible.
More detailed in floor craft discussion #119
How to teach floor craft ?
In the BR world, social dancing is mostly neglected because the ambitious dancers collect metals and keep to themselves. But the competition circus acts as a motor to fill the dance schools. There is nothing comparable with tango. Ideally, all levels meet at the milonga You've never attended a...
LadyLeader
Forum Master
Dances are designed by applying one or both of the following fundamental choreographic methods:
Improvisation, in which a choreographer provides dancers with a score (i.e., generalized directives) that serves as guidelines for improvised movement and form. For example, a score might direct one dancer to withdraw from another dancer, who in turn is directed to avoid the withdrawal, or it might specify a sequence of movements that are to be executed in an improvised manner over the course of a musical phrase, as in contra dance choreography. Improvisational scores typically offer wide latitude for personal interpretation by the dancer.
Planned choreography, in which a choreographer dictates motion and form in detail, leaving little or no opportunity for the dancer to exercise personal interpretation.
I see the ronda, keeping the distance and using movements of tango type as scores mentioned above.
Improvisation, in which a choreographer provides dancers with a score (i.e., generalized directives) that serves as guidelines for improvised movement and form. For example, a score might direct one dancer to withdraw from another dancer, who in turn is directed to avoid the withdrawal, or it might specify a sequence of movements that are to be executed in an improvised manner over the course of a musical phrase, as in contra dance choreography. Improvisational scores typically offer wide latitude for personal interpretation by the dancer.
Planned choreography, in which a choreographer dictates motion and form in detail, leaving little or no opportunity for the dancer to exercise personal interpretation.
I see the ronda, keeping the distance and using movements of tango type as scores mentioned above.
LadyLeader
Forum Master
My experience is that when the density is high and people do not advance they nor do not form the lines. Wals is also more turning so it does not push to form lines.
On the floor craft discussion tangogal posted a street dance video where the people are forming an outer line.