The Case of the Invisible Follower

[Tango Distance]

When I lived in Happiness, Arizona, it was easy to keep track of everyone -- there just weren't very many people, and the same people tended to go to the weekly milonga -- there wasn't another choice!

The Distance is now in the western hemisphere's 4th largest metro area. I might not remember someone's name, and rarely I'm not sure if I have danced with someone before. I am nearly perfect in recalling faces. I went to a milonga. Some people commented it wasn't as well attended as usual, with "only" about 100 people in attendance. Suddenly there is someone in my path, we cabeceo and off we go. I announce "I believe this is the first time we have danced!" She agrees, and goes on to say that she has seen me many times. For the life of me I can't recall having seen her face. I do a try: except:.

• Some ladies only dance with their husband -- I don't pay much attention to them. I'm thinking maybe this is the case. I ask "Do you come with someone?" She answers "Yes! My friend and I carpool. I pick her up." OK, two females, so that doesn't explain my memory hole.
• There is a pocket in the wall, set back from the ronda and blocked by a row of tables.. It is generally 100% followers who aren't dancing much -- some are those waiting for the best leaders. It's really hard to cabeceo there, with the tables in the way, and the high tables block the low seating. I generally don't pay much attention to this little area. "So where do you usually sit?" She says she sits right on the edge of the ronda, along my favorite wall to ask followers.
• The lighting was good. It was not a dark nocturna event.

Rats, I'm in the except: now! She was very good at the faster stuff, we pulled off some octotime phrases and seemed to very much enjoy the tanda; I know I did. After a song, I said I'd have to fix my oversight and be sure to ask her in the future!

To quote Sherlock Holmes, "When you have eliminated the impossible, whatever remains, however improbable, must be the truth".

• She has the power of invisibility. OK, maybe not in the strict physics sense, but perhaps she has mad Ninja skills? Don't automatically dismiss the invisibility thing, there is a follower here with shoes with invisible heels. BTW she was not wearing a mask.
• Maybe a criminal who has perfected being forgettable?
• Maybe she hypnotizes leaders to forget her, so they'll ask her more than twice in the same Milonga?
• Maybe just outlier statistics? Every time I have looked in her direction she happened to be turned away?
• Maybe the Distance's tech-addled brain is full, and memories must be lost to remember new things?

Questions for the DF audience:

• Has this happened to you?
• What are your tricks to remember people?

* location changed to protect the guilty

 

[Rabbit]

"they remember me, I don't remember them" happens to me regularly. It doesn't help that not only is my facial memory is below average, I'm more noticeable than average.

 

[opendoor]

I (leader) know the situation well. I often just poke my nose around the door of a milonga to assess the situation. Often, I don't go in because there is a surplus of men. The next day, however, I hear from followers that there was again a surplus of women at yesterday's milonga. I could swear it was the other way round. Seems I am blind to an objective analysis of the numerical ratios. Presumably, my visual cortex only registers pretty or suitable followers.

 

[Brummbaer]

Has this happened to you?

Yes, of course. I could put it down to age, but I've always had that problem with names. I could just say that it's not been a necessity to remember - I relate more to computers and other aspects than personal networking unless that's necessary. One of the things I learned to do in meetings,where it was necessary, was to write down the names of people around the table (in a notebook when everyone else had their laptop).

What are your tricks to remember people?

My wife used to teach, so had to remember the class, and others. I don't know how! I can remember more details than her - just not names. We have that forgetting problem now with other dancers, so it's about associating them with something - the more extreme and wacky the better. And, if necessary, make a note. I make notes in my phone (not my 'little black book' of contacts!) if I need to remember. The fact of having done something with the name allows me the link to recover it when needed. Even the fact of deleting it later from notes gives me that link. I can remember the person, and when and where we danced; it's just the names which elude me.

 

[Rabbit]

I (leader) know the situation well. I often just poke my nose around the door of a milonga to assess the situation. Often, I don't go in because there is a surplus of men. The next day, however, I hear from followers that there was again a surplus of women at yesterday's milonga. I could swear it was the other way round. Seems I am blind to an objective analysis of the numerical ratios. Presumably, my visual cortex only registers pretty or suitable followers.

But the followers are also biased, therefore we have no evidence as to what the actual ratio at the milonga was

 

[TTanguero]

Has this happened to you?

I have mild facial aphasia:

Mild facial aphasia, or why you have to introduce yourself to me multiple times

As some of you will know, I suffer from mild facial aphasia, also known as partial prosopagnosia. Since tango people are often curious about it when I mention it, I thought I’d write a brief …

benlovejoy.blog

I will eventually piece together enough clues to be able to recognise someone after meeting them anywhere between half a dozen times in relatively quick succession or about a dozen times over a longer time period. But it is very common for me not to recognize a follower's face, and I have no idea whether we've danced before until we enter the embrace. On many occasions, I will recognise her embrace, even though I didn't recognise her face.

 

[opendoor]

But the followers are also biased, therefore we have no evidence as to what the actual ratio at the milonga was

Thank you, Rabbit

 

[Pryn]

While I have yet to venture into the world of AT, I figured I'm a part of the DF audience, so I'll share my thoughts as a follow...

I tend to remember how my lead made me feel when we danced more than faces.

If it was a great dance with new exciting movements, or we moved like second nature, or a positive experience that made me feel amazing (3-min dance crush) - at the end of the dance I study their face and body profile to try to remember them. I look for hair and eye color, noticeable blemishes or moles, general build, tattoos - anything that can help me recognize them later so I can ask for another dance. (It doesn't always work to remember them, but I try).

If it was not a good dance and I struggled to follow, we couldn't keep from stepping on each other, it hurt, they got too handsy, they wanted to show-off for an audience more than have a dance connection moment with me, etc... I do the same studying - so I can limit our future interactions.

If it was just a decent dance and I didn't feel a big emotion (positive or negative) to associate with that lead, I may not remember their faces or that we've danced before.

I agree with the famous quote by Maya Angelou...
I've learned that people will forget what you said, people will forget what you did, but people will never forget how you made them feel.

This belief is also why I use humor or joyful exclamations when I'm dancing with someone. I want them to associate me with a positive feeling and hopefully be remembered for future dances. It doesn't always work but when it does - it feels great to be asked for dances from the start of the dance versus being invisible and having to ask, or wait to be noticed after the leads dance with their 1st picks and then make the courtesy rounds to the rest of us.

Caveat: I try to become invisible if the dance is poor and not going well. While I'll smile and nod, I'm more quiet and I limit eye contact and how much I try to engage them. My movements will also be smaller and I'm hoping to create a neutral impression (eh... not a great dance experience, not an awful one - just an okay dance...).

 

[Tango Distance]

"they remember me, I don't remember them" happens to me regularly. It doesn't help that not only is my facial memory is below average, I'm more noticeable than average.

That's a good thought. Not only are there more followers, my observation is leaders tend to last longer. Leaders are more noticeable by virtue of smaller numbers and longer tenures.

We have that forgetting problem now with other dancers, so it's about associating them with something - the more extreme and wacky the better. And, if necessary, make a note. I make notes in my phone (not my 'little black book' of contacts!) if I need to remember. The fact of having done something with the name allows me the link to recover it when needed. Even the fact of deleting it later from notes gives me that link. I can remember the person, and when and where we danced; it's just the names which elude me.

I have started logging names with things that help me remember; that has definitely helped with names.

it is very common for me not to recognize a follower's face, and I have no idea whether we've danced before until we enter the embrace. On many occasions, I will recognise her embrace, even though I didn't recognise her face.

Whoa, major Tango Distance realization moment realized! We are flipped from each other -- I'd recognize the face, but embracing or dancing with the lady does not reveal to me if we had danced before. I suddenly realize I could have a degree of choroagnosia (word I made up, choro => dance, agnosia => not knowing/recognizing). That explains some things. I'll follow up on this in a day or two in my Not Touchy Feely thread. BTW I'm impressed you can tell just by an embrace, and wonder what you are reading.

I agree with the famous quote by Maya Angelou....
I've learned that people will forget what you said, people will forget what you did, but people will never forget how you made them feel.

This belief is also why I use humor or joyful exclamations when I'm dancing with someone. I want them to associate me with a positive feeling and hopefully be remembered for future dances. It doesn't always work but when it does - it feels great to be asked for dances from the start of the dance versus being invisible and having to ask, or wait to be noticed after the leads dance with their 1st picks and then make the courtesy rounds to the rest of us.

I love the "how you made them feel" comment. That goes both ways for me, how I was made to feel, and how the follower felt. Once the tanda ends, a smiling, happy, enthusiastic follower is much more likely to get asked again! Fully in the moment, not wanting it to end (like holding the embrace) works, too. I have a great story about this in an upcoming post.
The other direction: One lady makes me feel like I'm the only guy in the world, and she couldn't be happier. I have had this other experience with only 2 followers: A feeling of peace. One of the times was recently. I asked her "I think you do something relating to people, like a teacher or psychologist." She was happy I said that, and told me she worked with veterans with PTSD. She was the only follower I asked twice that night.
Pryn you are smart to express appreciation! My dear wife says that is one of her tricks -- she dances nonstop even on 3x followers nights -- she is very good at getting dances!
Asking early => first picks. I have had multiple ladies comment I don't ask them until later in the night. I explain I try to ask newbies and visitors early, as they tend to leave early; make that especially early if they get 0 dances! This also seems to get the ball rolling for visitors, who would sit unasked, but once seen dancing then get lots of invites.
Another Distance thing is I tend to not ask the same lady twice in a night (my dear wife excepted).
I had the thought that both of these might relate to choroagnosia... Hmm, food for thought... I'll post worthy thoughts on that in my Not Touchy Feely thread.

 

[Pryn]

Asking early => first picks. I have had multiple ladies comment I don't ask them until later in the night. I explain I try to ask newbies and visitors early, as they tend to leave early; make that especially early if they get 0 dances! This also seems to get the ball rolling for visitors, who would sit unasked, but once seen dancing then get lots of invites.

I wish more leads had that perspective. I'd get more dances at the start.

I like to believe that the first pick is more the leads familiarity with the follow. Picking someone they know you can dance well provides assurance of no rejection, a good warm-up dances (allow you to get into dance flow) and a chance to be seen by other potential follows - which can open the door for a more full dance card night.

 

[TTanguero]

That explains some things. I'll follow up on this in a day or two in my Not Touchy Feely thread. BTW I'm impressed you can tell just by an embrace, and wonder what you are reading.

I don't mean that every follower has a distinctive embrace, of course, but it is pretty common that they do. Different followers have different approaches to height differences ... enter the embrace in different ways and at different speeds ... position their left hand in different places ... hold my left hand in different ways ... settle into the embrace in different ways during the first few seconds (fewer or more adjustments) ... adjust the embrace dynamically during dance differently ... release the embrace or not between songs ... open the embrace in different ways and at different speeds at the end of a tanda.

I'm sure there are a great many more variables than that in reality, but these are the ones that spring to mind immediately.

 

[Bailango]

But the followers are also biased, therefore we have no evidence as to what the actual ratio at the milonga was

I do actual counting when I reach early. That gives me a fair estimate. I stop counting at 50. If milonga is larger than 50, then I count number of men and women not dancing. It gives me an objective view compared to the subjective perception.

 

[Bailango]

I like to believe that the first pick is more the leads familiarity with the follow. Picking someone they know you can dance well provides assurance of no rejection, a good warm-up dances (allow you to get into dance flow) and a chance to be seen by other potential follows - which can open the door for a more full dance card night.

Not at all as a leader. I like to save dances with my true first picks after I have warmed up and got into the groove. First 30 minutes of dancing is new dancers I haven’t seen before.

Everyone is different. It is hard to generalize why or when leader’s first pick is truly someone he prefers dancing with.

 

[Tango Distance]

Another aspect involves those who leave early. If you don't ask them early you won't dance with them.
There is also asking late by strategy. If there is someone being super selective (SBSS) (possibly all the way to snob) at a table, ask everyone else at the table first, and ask the snob last. The odds of a yes go up IME. A handful of times I've had an SBSS I never did ask come up to me at the end of an event and ask that I ask them next event.
Another late by strategy: It gives a chance for you to show those uncertain that you actually can dance before asking.

I don't mean that every follower has a distinctive embrace, of course, but it is pretty common that they do. Different followers have different approaches to height differences ... enter the embrace in different ways and at different speeds ... position their left hand in different places ... hold my left hand in different ways ... settle into the embrace in different ways during the first few seconds (fewer or more adjustments) ... adjust the embrace dynamically during dance differently ... release the embrace or not between songs ... open the embrace in different ways and at different speeds at the end of a tanda.

I'm sure there are a great many more variables than that in reality, but these are the ones that spring to mind immediately.

I can tell coarse things, like height or thinness, but it seems I lack the resolution/knowledge to know if we had danced before. It's a case of you don't know what you don't know. It had not occurred to me the embrace/dance could ID someone, now it's on my radar.

 

[ArbeeNYC]

Has this happened to you?

Yes.