The Giro/Molinette re-visited

[Mario7]

Close-embrace dancing
Last night, my favorite Tanguera advised me to lead more forcefully with my shoulder when turning in the Molinette (to the closed side)..in other words, don't hesitate nor go in spasms (jerks) but TURN that thing! ...OK, I got it..smooth, un hesitating, deliberate... what could be clearer and I have something to work on this week before the next dance. (any comments to add?) But, she also gave me another piece of advice that I didn't quite get so clearly...I can swear that she told me twice that it's easier for her to do the grape-vine around me if I stand more upright. As I've always been working on my lean forward and it's not the most natural thing to learn, I was suprised to hear that I should be standing more upright....hmmm, any thoughts? Is this true for you?
Then I remembered this demo by Homer...boy they look pretty upright to me..is this a hold over from ballroom or THE best way to do it?? thanks!
http://www.youtube.com/watch?v=fgkbisJOpPM
Here's my Tango Idol doing it...see any difference?
http://www.youtube.com/watch?v=ISKpL-OHtiI&feature=PlayList&p=343A03DD2E951618&index=7

 

[Subliminal]

Hrm... were you dancing apilado? I could see that being more difficult for a follower who isn't used to the really close turns. I personally have been taught to maintain the forward connection, and both partners are responsible for their own balance in the turn. i.e., if one partner suddenly pulled away, the other should be balanced on the balls of their feet, and should not fall.

 

[ant]

.....I can swear that she told me twice that it's easier for her to do the grape-vine around me if I stand more upright. As I've always been working on my lean forward

When leading a giro you are the centre of the circle your follower is making around you. Therefore the standing foot should not move and your body should be upright. Were you able to keep your foot from moving when you were leaning forward?

I recently attended a beginners class regarding giros. The teacher started the class with everybody doing the Greek Bazuki as this has the same steps as the giro. She carried on that theme through the class when explaining the leaders role and likening that to a Doner Kebab and the axis through the body being like the skewer that goes through the doner when it circulates in front of the grill.

 

[Peaches]

To me, "upright" can mean two things.

It could mean that you're leaning too far forward, or it could mean that you're breaking at the waist and bending to the side. I've run across leaders who do that, and it makes life incredibly difficult. Without more information it's hard to say.

As for the leaning too far forward...I don't know. It could be partly her fault as well. I know that I tend to lose connection, or struggle to maintain it as snugly during a molinete. I think apilado is almost easier in this instance, because you have to maintain that connection and very quickly know if you haven't. Also, it's much harder to use too much connection that it is to end up with too little.

I certainly wouldn't think you'd back off a forward connection...but what do I know?

ETA: In looking at both videos it doesn't look like the man changes the angle of his body much at all. I see both of them being on their own axis throughout the dancing, but also forward poised. It doesn't look like that changes when their partners circle around them. Certainly they're upright, but it's not a pulled-back upright like you seem to find in ballroom.

 

[hbboogie1]

Close-embrace dancing
Last night, my favorite Tanguera advised me to lead more forcefully with my shoulder when turning in the Molinette (to the closed side)..in other words, don't hesitate nor go in spasms (jerks) but TURN that thing! ...OK, I got it..smooth, un hesitating, deliberate... what could be clearer and I have something to work on this week before the next dance. (any comments to add?) But, she also gave me another piece of advice that I didn't quite get so clearly...I can swear that she told me twice that it's easier for her to do the grape-vine around me if I stand more upright. As I've always been working on my lean forward and it's not the most natural thing to learn, I was suprised to hear that I should be standing more upright....hmmm, any thoughts? Is this true for you?
Then I remembered this demo by Homer...boy they look pretty upright to me..is this a hold over from ballroom or THE best way to do it?? thanks!
http://www.youtube.com/watch?v=fgkbisJOpPM
Here's my Tango Idol doing it...see any difference?
http://www.youtube.com/watch?v=ISKpL-OHtiI&feature=PlayList&p=343A03DD2E951618&index=7

This video shows Orlando performing three molinettes in a row. From 50 seconds to 105.
There is a huge difference in his footwork and the footwork of the other two-video examples. Not to take anything away from the other two styles of dancing it’s just a matter of preference.


http://www.youtube.com/watch?v=HjpJhWFHCKA

 

[Mladenac]

when you are doing giros in tango salon V embrace, you should extended your shoulder to a partner, so like she, and she will have enough space for making giros.

 

[Dave Bailey]

When leading a giro you are the centre of the circle your follower is making around you

Unless you're not, of course (shared axis turn). Yes, I do like to be awkward...

That aside:

Therefore the standing foot should not move and your body should be upright. Were you able to keep your foot from moving when you were leaning forward?

Yes - in the leader-is-the-axis scenario, it's very helpful if the follower can walk around a single axis point (i.e. keep one foot non-moving); don't move the front of the foot, so keeping the weight forward is a good thing.

I recently attended a beginners class regarding giros. The teacher started the class with everybody doing the Greek Bazuki as this has the same steps as the giro. She carried on that theme through the class when explaining the leaders role and likening that to a Doner Kebab and the axis through the body being like the skewer that goes through the doner when it circulates in front of the grill.

Oooh, I was at that class! Maybe that should be my claim to fame

 

[Mario7]

Great replies, friends! I'm sure that the solution is in here and I will keep all this advice in mind this week... besides the embrace and walking, I believe that the Giro is the most important thing for a lead to master in the dance. I will report back after next week's outting and let you know if she and I solve it.

 

[dchester]

Great replies, friends! I'm sure that the solution is in here and I will keep all this advice in mind this week... besides the embrace and walking, I believe that the Giro is the most important thing for a lead to master in the dance. I will report back after next week's outting and let you know if she and I solve it.

I agree with that as well. There are a myriad of things to practice involving turns. The more ways that you can get into them, (along with the more things you can do coming out of them), the more it allows you make little variations to keep things interesting.

 

[Steve Pastor]

lead more forcefully with my shoulder when turning in the Molinette (to the closed side)

Does this mean that your "close embrace" is "V" shaped, rather flat on torso to torso, or at the very least that your "embrace" is asymetric, rather than symetric?

I can swear that she told me twice that it's easier for her to do the grape-vine around me if I stand more upright. As I've always been working on my lean forward and it's not the most natural thing to learn, I was suprised to hear that I should be standing more upright....hmmm, any thoughts? Is this true for you?

It is possible to do the giro without changing the amount of "lean" or "weight shared", even in apilado.
Your partner may, however, find it easier to be more "on her own axis". Managing your own steps and body movement is easier than mangaing your steps, your body movements AND the amount of your weight that is forward and shared with your partner.

Regarding where the axis is when your partner does a giro in apilado, I'm thinking it would require a fair amount of verbage to describe. If your "weighted" foot doesn't move, and the "axis" of the joined partners is between them and in front of their bodies (part of my definition of apilado) ...

 

[AndaBien]

Does this mean that your "close embrace" is "V" shaped, rather flat on torso to torso, or at the very least that your "embrace" is asymetric, rather than symetric?

It is possible to do the giro without changing the amount of "lean" or "weight shared", even in apilado. Your partner may, however, find it easier to be more "on her own axis". Managing your own steps and body movement is easier than mangaing your steps, your body movements AND the amount of your weight that is forward and shared with your partner.

Regarding where the axis is when your partner does a giro in apilado, I'm thinking it would require a fair amount of verbage to describe. If your "weighted" foot doesn't move, and the "axis" of the joined partners is between them and in front of their bodies (part of my definition of apilado) ...

Yes, a lot depends on how you hold your partner, as mentioned, and also on how strong a connection you prefer. Watching videos is fine, but ultimately I think you just have to find that sweet spot for yourself. I can almost always get it turning to my left, but I still struggle going to my right.

I like to think of it resembling a compass, for drawing circles. Your partner's feet draw the diameter; your feet are the anchor point; the point of connection also moves in an arc, but with a smaller radius. In that arc, I think it's important for the leader to follow the movement of his partner, leaning exactly toward the place where her feet are, as they move around. And, the compass must be perfectly vertical at all times.

 

[bordertangoman]

part of the skill in leading a giro is one's ability to dissociate; if one can turn the torso smootly then let the hips and leg/s turn to catch or vice versa- which is what you will see Homer doing in his video ( and most other good dancers too). One can also do double weighted turns with the feet close together and lifting the heel to allow one foot to pass over the other.

 

[AndaBien]

I was just watching those videos again and realized that I was trying to see what the guys were doing by looking at their feet. Big mistake - I should know better. I learned a lot more by watching their upper bodies.

 

[hbboogie1]

I was just watching those videos again and realized that I was trying to see what the guys were doing by looking at their feet. Big mistake - I should know better. I learned a lot more by watching their upper bodies.

Watching the upper body is important but keep looking at the feet and you will see the difference between someone in complete control and someone who is just shuffling the feet and not really being specific as to where they are at any given time. The feet will separate tango dancers from good tango dancers.

 

[Angel HI]

Mario,

I am in Alaska for a week, and really envying you down in SMdA right now.

Re the molinete that creates the giro, it is important to remember this if you haven't already. Many of the argentines prefer the 6 step to the 4 step approach (a hexagon? [stop sign shape] rather than a square). This results in that desired triangle shape between you and the follow on each step, and helps to maintain center and spacing. Of course, keeping the lead shoulder leading is a given. Buena suerte, amigo.